The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast

Episode 54: Why Boundaries Are the Real Self-Care for Moms with Special Guest Speaker Dr. Rebecca Smith

• Kayla Nettleton • Episode 54

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Have you ever felt like you’ve lost sight of who you are outside of being a mom, partner, or professional? In this episode of The Modern Mom’s Roadmap to Balance Podcast, I’m joined by Dr. Rebecca Smith, a clinical psychologist specializing in anxiety and perfectionism. Together, we dive into the challenges of navigating motherhood while maintaining your sense of self.

Dr. Rebecca shares her own journey of rediscovering joy through simple self-care practices like reading and baking. We explore the metaphor of life’s “glass and rubber balls,” identifying what truly matters and how self-care often becomes the first thing moms sacrifice. You’ll also hear practical tips on establishing healthy boundaries, teaching kids independence, and addressing perfectionism in everyday life.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Why self-care is not a luxury but a necessity for moms.
  • How to set boundaries with love and without guilt.
  • The transformative power of embracing imperfection.
  • Real-life strategies for sharing the mental load with your partner and children.
  • Whether you’re a mom feeling overwhelmed or a professional striving for balance, this conversation will leave you feeling inspired and empowered to reclaim your time, energy, and sense of self.

Helpful Links:

Website: https://www.rebeccaaesmithphd.com

Social Media Handles

https://www.youtube.com/@RebeccaAESmithPhD

About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.

In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life


Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance

Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com

TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.

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Kayla Nettleton:

Welcome back everybody to the Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance podcast. I'm your host, Kayla Nettleton, and today my guest is Rebecca Smith. Dr. Rebecca is a clinical psychologist who specializes in anxiety and perfectionism. She's a mom of two kiddos and loves that as much as she loves being an entrepreneur and building her private practice. She lives in New Orleans and is licensed in Louisiana and Virginia. In those moments, she's not working or momming. She loves reading romance novels or watching Murder, She Wrote with her husband. We're very cool, Kayla. Well, thank you for joining us, Rebecca. What is Murder, She Wrote? Is that an old, like,

Rebecca Smith:

um,

Kayla Nettleton:

soap opera?

Rebecca Smith:

It wasn't daytime. It's like 80s and 90s, like little old lady solved murders. we're getting really good at being within five minutes, we're like, he's going to die. It's going to be her. She did it.

Kayla Nettleton:

Oh my gosh. where are you watching this on?

Rebecca Smith:

Peacock. It's the only reason we like, we're like, Oh my God, it's just so chill. but our kids are five and two. And so we started shortening it and we'd be like, Hey, you want to watch a murder? And then we're like, we can't say that around the kids. No, no murder. She wrote is a show.

Kayla Nettleton:

Oh, funny. Yes. That's hilarious.

Rebecca Smith:

They're like, what? I'm like, mom, what does that word mean? I'm like, we're not talking about that word yet, guys.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yeah. So with the question that I asked everybody, what is your definition of a balanced life?

Rebecca Smith:

I mean, you like don't pull any punches when you're starting. That's like a really hard question.

Kayla Nettleton:

No, We get in there, get everybody's definition. Exactly.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah.

Kayla Nettleton:

Right to the question.

Rebecca Smith:

I feel like, I feel like it's such a good question though, because I feel like it is different for everybody. And I think that My personal answer has to do with like, Oh, if I get this amount of me time, or if I can figure out how to feel like me when I'm doing all this other stuff. So for me, that might be like reading while watching my kids or something and playing with them. And then also having time to say like, mommy likes to read a book. I'm going to read a book now. But when I'm talking to my patients, I like to have a broader answer because that could be different for a lot of people. And to me, I think that working moms are juggling a lot where we've got a lot of balls in the air. And the metaphor that I like to use when I think about balance is imagining. for yourself, which of these balls are glass and which are rubber, because a bunch of them are going to fall. And if you're feeling like you can live towards a balanced life, you have to know that the self care one is actually glass. Like that one feels like the first one that you can drop. It feels like taking care of yourself. It can wait so you can get to all the other things you're doing, but treating that one like glass and knowing that the dishes or the meeting, that doesn't really matter. Actually, we can maybe make an email. Yeah. Reading those ones, more like ones that you are allowed to drop. If that makes sense. I don't know, what do you think, Kayla? Does that make sense to you? Oh yeah, no, it makes

Kayla Nettleton:

absolutely sense. And yesterday, okay, so we're recording this like very early October and this might not come out. So if you're going back and like looking at my Instagram, it might not be the one that I did yesterday, But on October 1st, I had just thrown up an Instagram post. And one of the things that I had put was self-care is not a luxury. Because a lot of us do think of self care as a luxury and sure, getting your nails done and getting your hair done is a luxury. But that's not the only way that you can engage in self care and Rebecca, you just talked about like a self care for you is being able to read a book so it's, really about incorporating many different things, many different ways that you can feel like you're getting that self care and it doesn't have to be just this one thing where you're spending money. But yeah, I think it makes absolute sense that sometimes we can drop one of those rubber balls to save the glass one.

Rebecca Smith:

Exactly. Yeah. And I think that it is true, you know, for me, reading a book baking, I really love baking. I think that one of the answers to what self care can be is what makes you feel like. You. And I think that like as a mom and as an entrepreneur, as a working mom, whatever that is, you're wearing a lot of different hats and it's rare to wear that hat. That's like, I have felt like this self since day one, this is the same 12 year old self also wanted to read, you know, this thing. Yeah. 20 year old self. And now the 30s, I can't remember how old I am. 37, something like that. The 37 year old self is the same. And that's what makes me feel like me in the midst of the momming.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yeah. And I really love that you said that in terms of looking at self care as engaging in an activity that makes you feel like you, especially as moms, there's a lot of times where we. Forget. We forget what we loved because we're no longer engaging in it. We forget that feeling of who it is to be truly ourselves because we've been just so into the role as mom that we don't allow ourselves time or space to be who it is. You are to be Kayla or to be Rebecca.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah. Yeah. And noticing too, you know, I think there are times you might get pushed back, right? Your partner wants you to be the partner. Your, kids want you to be the mom. And I think it is said now more often, but it bears repeating. Like it's good for your kids to see you do something that makes you happy. And it's as simple as sitting and reading a book or like if they're coloring, you can do a coloring page too, just cause you like it and you don't have to do it and you don't have to give it to them and keep it, like you

Kayla Nettleton:

have your own special crayons or color pencils. I just bought them for myself. And my daughter was like, mommy, can I use it? Your color pencils you yours that you just bought like no, baby. Those those are mommy's color pencils I'm with you. You can use your crayons, but these are just for mommy. But why I want to be able to color in the lines Okay. Well, let's go find your color pencils

Rebecca Smith:

You can have those I actually remember my mom is a doctor she's a neurologist And I remember how much she had to do this balance too. And it's so bizarre, but I have this really vivid memory. she's a neurologist and she had really good relationships with her patients and they would often like bring her little gifts or they would go on a trip. They would bring her back something. And every single time I was like, is that mine? I want it. And so much of the time she would give it to me. and I remember the one time, the very first time she was like, actually, this one is for me. And I was like, I was like, what? I had this vivid memory of thinking like, Oh my God, you are a whole person who has her own things and that really stuck with me realizing that was really powerful for kid Becky and wanting my kids to feel so loved and cherished and I can be generous with them. But I also am a whole person was something I thought was stuck in my head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yes. so I love food. I love really good food. And my husband makes fun of me and he'll be like, you're just so fancy. You just like all of the fancy stuff. Like I do like fancy, food. So sure. I like vanilla and chocolate. Ice cream, but there is this one. So if you're in Texas and listening to this, you will be able to find it because it's H E B brand swoon by H E B and it's cookie lovers ice cream. And it's my favorite. It has chocolate and white chocolate ice cream. And then it has the different Cookies. So like Oreo, not be Oreo, right? Not Oreo bread, a black and white cookie. Yeah. And then there's cookie dough and then there's this fudge stuff inside and it is my favorite ice cream. I will not share. I'm not going to share the ice cream. but if I'm getting it for myself. I'm going to buy my kids like maybe like popsicles cause I know they're going to ask, but I have another option for them and my kids will be like, but what's that one? I'm like, that one is a mommy's. These are

Rebecca Smith:

for you. Oh my gosh. I saw some, video or something. And the mom was trying to say like, you can't, it was ice cream. And she's like, it's spicy. You can't have it. And as funny as that is, and I've probably employed that once or twice, there is also something actually valuable about saying like, it's just not. Yours. I love you, sweetie. I will give you the world, but I will not give you this bite of ice cream.

Kayla Nettleton:

I'm not going to give you my favorite, like, um, what is it? Salted caramel chocolate chip cookie. No, this is for me because I know you're not going to really like it anyways, but I'm not telling you that these are for you. And this is teaching them boundaries. This is teaching them organic boundaries without it being like, I feel like whenever people are talking about or thinking about boundaries, it's like, this is the boundary. Like they're using that word and that's not necessarily how it has to be done. Sure. Sometimes you do have to be very clear. Like this is my boundary. I love you, but I am not willing to do this right now. Or I don't like you talking to me in this way. So we're going to have to pause there. Sure. There's times for that, but this is mommy's ice cream and this is yours. That's also a boundary.

Kayla Nettleton (2):

Yeah.

Kayla Nettleton:

Teaching your kids, like sometimes they're not going to get what you have because that's yours and that's okay.

Rebecca Smith:

Right. And, and without shaming, right? and even between them, right, I have a five year old and a two year old. And so similarly, you know, brother wants whatever thing. And it's like, do you want to share that? You don't have to. And sometimes they do want to share it and sometimes they don't. then we kind of deal with the tears. But, I think that it's actually kind of getting in like underneath some of this cool stuff where the real self care is boundaries. The real self care is feeling protected. The real self care is feeling like you're allowed to be safe within your boundaries. I think that that's really huge. And as silly as it sounds, like those teaching moments. Our options about ice cream or colored pencils. Oh yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Those

Kayla Nettleton:

are the easy moments because if we're waiting for the tougher stuff, it's going to be so much harder if we're just willing to give in or it's just easier to give them the things that are mine because then I don't have to deal with this tantrum. If we're not working with it now, it's going to be so much harder when we get to like The actual big stuff, like maybe the stuff that they can watch rated R versus PG 13 or when they're starting to drive and being able to go to this friend's house or not that friend's house.

Rebecca Smith:

Absolutely. I totally agree. And then too, There's the additional benefit of like, is so cliche, but it's so true. If you feel good, you can be a better parent. You can be a better self. There is more balance, right? That balance kind of getting back to that. One of my favorite pieces of parenting advice is make sure mommy has a snack. Like, yes, because if mommy has a snack and she has enough energy to make sure everybody else

Kayla Nettleton:

has a snack. Yes, that's so true. Sometimes My husband and I, we try and make snacks easy. So one of the things that we would eat as a snack was yogurt, but I wouldn't always have time to sit down and eat a yogurt, but I knew I needed a snack. So we found these, like, they're basically like. The Danimals, does everyone know what a Danimal is? It's like those yogurt smoothies for kids. It's basically like that, but for an adult and it has 23 grams of protein. So if you're, counting protein, like it's an excellent source for a quick drink. So it's like this yogurt smoothie. I think it's. Boy goes brand. So you don't have to just find it at ATB.

Rebecca Smith:

You're like, if you're not in Texas, you're allowed to have this.

Kayla Nettleton:

You can find this one. And so it was like a game changer. It's still yogurt. I'm still getting my snack, And I like it better. I like the taste better than the yogurt we were buying anyways. So, I was like, can you buy these at the grocery store from now on? Cause at the time he was going to the grocery store, He was in charge of the groceries. I'm like, I need you to buy these and not those.

Rebecca Smith:

First of all, yes. Love that. Secondly, that you just said something that made me think about balance too. And I think that this is not always available. Not all moms. I'm sure there are many single moms who are listening to this podcast, but I also think that if you are able to share. the load like how you said Oh, he was doing the groceries at that time, which is like You can do the grocery seeking or whatever, it doesn't matter who, but having that set line of like, this is who does this and this is who does that I think can also genuinely provide a lot of balance. Not only the fact that it's shared, but the fact that it's so distinct and set and this is what we're doing.

Kayla Nettleton:

And I mean, in that, if you're listening, like think about all of the things you do, not in to throw it in your partner's face or anything, but sometimes we forget. All that we're doing because We've just gotten so used to it that we're not thinking about it. So kind of taking an inventory of what are all of the things that I'm doing that I'm in charge of,

Kayla Nettleton (2):

and if we're

Kayla Nettleton:

rolling with energy, that might be a good place to start and can you hand some of that stuff off? Can some of this stuff go to your kids? Like, are you packing their lunches or are you doing their laundry? Is this an age appropriate chore that they can start doing? Yes. It's going to be some extra work on the front end, but if you can get rid of this in the long run, it's going to be so much better for you. So thinking about stuff like that.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah. Have you heard of the what's it called? It's It's the division. Oh fair play. Yes. I'm like, could you please read my mind about this thing?

Kayla Nettleton:

Yes. Fair. When you said the Division of Labor, I'm like, okay. She must be talking about Fair Play. Yes. Fair Play by E Brodsky. Yes. I

Rebecca Smith:

Gold. Right? There's a, there's a little, it's not a game. It is cards. There are cards. But to like, yes. You know, figure out who's doing what chore. There's a book. There's actually a Netflix show. Highly recommend. But do you watch the show? I haven't watched it. I have a few patients who have watched it and for them, it really drove home the whole like, wow, when it's not balanced, it is really easy to notice from the outside, The only

Kayla Nettleton:

reason I ask is because at the time I think I saw it on Hulu and so I watched it, but it was after I read the book and I was very underwhelmed, but I think if you maybe start with it, it would probably be better. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'm coming at this as a therapist and not just like

Rebecca Smith:

you're a shrink Kayla

Kayla Nettleton:

Right,

Rebecca Smith:

yeah, no, I think I think that if you are not in the field it's a little bit more Impactful and if you are in the field, you're like duh. Yes, but like yeah, absolutely for sure. There's this other piece of it that you're saying you're like talking about. Can you give your kid this task? Which I'm all for that. That's so great but it brings into mind something that I think about a lot which is perfectionism and the idea of like Can I delegate? Wouldn't it be nice if I delegated, and I manage my own discomfort in having tasks done differently, and maybe not perfectly, to allow myself that time, right? and that's not just, my kid doesn't do it well enough, like that really is. Like, where is my perfectionism making it so I am not okay?

Kayla Nettleton:

Yes. that was something that I struggled with too, in terms of I want things to be a certain way or in a certain place, but again, it took some time and some work to be able to release it in that discomfort

Kayla Nettleton (2):

of

Kayla Nettleton:

it doesn't have to be this way. everything's still going to be okay. Everything's going to look fine.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah.

Kayla Nettleton:

It's okay if it's not perfect. Because yes, I identify as someone who's at a perfectionist. I definitely do. But it's looking at like, is my perfectionism helping me or is it working against me at this point?

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that the hard piece with perfectionism is that I would say more than half the time. It's, in that painful place. Right. because if we go back to the definition, we're thinking about trying to attain perfection. And so we're literally chasing something that is not possible. And we're setting ourselves up for pain and failure. And then when I talk about it with my patients, I call it anxious perfectionism to kind of add this, like, I get that you're specific and I get that you're meticulous. But you're in pain girly and it doesn't feel good and that anxiety with the perfectionism is I think really important and noticing like like you said sit with the discomfort or soothe the discomfort. How do I? appropriately self soothe so that I can Allow a little bit of flexibility in my space and then allow more self care positive stuff at balance for myself

Kayla Nettleton:

Yeah, yeah, because there's usually something underneath. So for example, this comes up for me sometimes in terms of whatever my son chooses to wear. My immediate thought sometimes is like, that's what you're wearing. I am not saying this out loud.

Rebecca Smith:

Exactly. No. I am

Kayla Nettleton:

saying this in my head. Like, ooh. I've come to realize this is bringing up stuff for me in my own, what are people going to think of me if I'm wearing this? He is totally fine in his athletic wear. I have nothing against people who wear athletic wear. I love wearing athletic wear. But he wears soccer jerseys. And all the time, he's totally into soccer and good for him. But in my mind, I'm like, I can't, like, how do you wear soccer jerseys all the time? Not only just soccer jerseys, but like his soccer jerseys, this is not like professional soccer jerseys. Like, his soccer, league, like the hometown stuff. Team blue. I'm like, I'm like, How, but he's just like, this is what he loves. He's very comfortable. And that's what he likes. so this is my own stuff coming up. This has nothing to do with him. He is good. And what he's wearing, if he wants to change that, that's fine with him. But why am I going to put those shame thoughts on him that are mine?

Rebecca Smith:

Right? I think you're so right that a lot of what I'm hearing you say is. I'm imagining myself wearing the team blue soccer jersey and not being able to stand the looks that I'm getting in the grocery store, right? That there's this other layer of, I would say, especially our partner and our children, a little, to some extent, like other family members or friends, but particularly our partners and our children are kind of like our proxies in the world. Right. And so they represent us. and it goes back and forth, right? And so it's a little bit, oh man, if I were him, I would be embarrassed to wear that soccer jersey. Mm-Hmm. But there's another thing in your brain, potentially for, I think for a lot of us, I know this comes up for me where it's like. Are people going to think, what kind of mom let him wear that, right? like, Oh, if my proxy, my kid or my partner is out there doing something, how does that actually reflect on me, on, on Rebecca, on Kayla? not just on them and realizing like. Allowing them to have their own personhood and, express that even if it would be different from us is such an act of trust with your kids and like strength in yourself that like they can be different from you and, and it's okay.

Kayla Nettleton:

Oh, yeah. And I would absolutely agree. Like, that's also part of where it stemmed from. It was what kind of mother will people think I am? I've done tons of work on that myself. And I like that doesn't even pop in my mind anymore as much, right? Like sometimes never like fully get rid of something. Sometimes it will come up and I'm just like, you know, it's fine. I don't care. Like if my son is a very hot natured person. So he's often the kid. Running around with no jacket on and it's like 40, 50 degrees. And people are like, where's his jacket? Like, he's fine. If he needs his jacket, he's going to come tell us.

Rebecca Smith:

Yes. You're like, I'm not torturing my child. If you want to try to wrestle him into this fine. But like, I think, Oh yes. Yes.

Kayla Nettleton:

That's another thing too, is I will sometimes think like, is this worth the fight? Is this worth the struggle? And a lot of the times probably not, because I'll ask myself this, it, the answer is no. Says no, this is not worth it.

Rebecca Smith:

No. Well, not only is it not worth it, and maybe this is like, we're two therapists talking and so we're gonna get like deep into it here. But there's this full circle moment. That might take me a minute to explain, but if we tell him that he doesn't know what he needs, I know what you need. Mm-Hmm. You need a jacket? and then that piece of it undermines building self trust, right? Yeah. Whereas if we're saying, okay, fine, I'm freezing, but you figure out your own body. I trust you to come tell me what you need. You know, we go back to this like full circle moment of fast forwarding to how can he possibly find balance? If he's not really good at checking in with himself and doing that self trust piece and knowing what he needs and believing that what he needs is okay right? it's like actually all connected there.

Kayla Nettleton:

Oh, for real. And, that is, so on point, even from like my own childhood, as an adult, I struggled with like, what is it that I want, what is it that I want to do for me? What is it that I need? Because as a child and my mom and I have had conversation about this, it was do as I say, there was no explanation. it was the, because I said, so

Rebecca Smith:

because I said, so

Kayla Nettleton:

yes. And when we just. Tell our child to do something because we said, so they're never going to learn to trust themselves to recognize their own needs. And yes, there are circumstances where they absolutely have to have their jacket or it's unsafe, like in negative degree weather. But that is something that you can talk about.

Rebecca Smith:

But when

Kayla Nettleton:

it's like 50 degrees or 60 degrees, they don't want to wear their sweater or their jacket. They're not going to die. Like they're not going to get frostbite. It's going to be okay.

Rebecca Smith:

absolutely. For sure. what you're saying about your childhood. She reminds me of the only reason. When my mom said, no, this, this gift is for me. I'm not giving it to you. The reason it stuck in my head was because I was old enough to remember that she had never said that until I was, I don't know, I must've been like eight or nine. literally that was the first time when I was like, wow, And so I don't know. I'm thinking of what you're talking about this, because I said so, or whatever it is. And noticing that, when there's a shift, when it is time for me to trust myself, when it is time for mom to have her own needs and keep her own stuff or whatever it is, it does really impact us. there's also movement. There's time to shift how you're doing it. Right. Let's say your jacket, if it's below 65 kind of mom, and you're trying to let go of that, Like that is such a cool moment to not only decide, you know what I can be flexible. I can change my mind. And I can also tell my kid why I decided, you know, what kiddo, I really realized that I trust you and I trust that you're going to tell me when. And so let me know, I have it here. Let me know. Right. you can make that decision and have those moments. That shift things, and I think that they can be really meaningful.

Kayla Nettleton:

Mm hmm. Yeah, and when you're having that, you can also say, We're going to grab your jacket, just in case. So we have it if you do decide that you are cold later on. Because then that's teaching them. If we just, as moms, grab their jacket and do all that for them, they're not learning that other piece we have to teach them the thinking.

Rebecca Smith:

Yes, it's like, it's the sports casting, right? you know, when they were little and you're learning how to talk. And so you're like, you put the doll on the bed, right? You're like, this is what's happening. Right. And it doesn't actually ever end. We're all like, okay, I'm going to verbalize what's going through my head. Right now. I am packing this because I think that the temperature is going to get down and et cetera, et cetera.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yes. Yes, that's so true. There's this woman I follow on social media and I can never remember what her account is, but I'll link it in the show notes, but her whole thing is about being able to teach children how to observe and find what needs to be done and be able to do it because that's a learned skill, which usually it's women who were taught that or we teach it to ourselves because we're trying to, Make other people feel better or not get in trouble. So those are things that we learned.

Rebecca Smith:

Independent, people pleasing. Yes. Stop the like yelling before it starts. Whatever.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's usually women and girls who learn that skill and not men and boys. So trying to help parents teach their kids how to scan and notice what might need to get done around the house. And it's not all just on mom to be able to do this. And there was this game she shared that someone had shared with her. And it was like the notice gate. So all the kids have to notice something that Needs to get done. So parent can do this. They write it on like a little note and they're going to see if the kids can guess what needs to get done or what needs to get picked up around the house or what needs to be cleaned up. And if the kids can guess, then they win. And then they get to be the, seeker who like, Oh, like the eyes of my writer. Yeah. That's so fun. Yeah. She was like, sure, you can give them a prize if you want. But we don't want them to be doing this just so they can get a prize.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah. We do it because we're in the community of the household. because we want to live in a nice place. Mm-Hmm. Like we want it to be nice here and we all contribute. That is so cool. And stealing that so hard. I cannot wait for you to link that.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yes. I was like waiting for the weekend because I'm not about to do this on the weekday. I'm waiting for the weekend to do this and see like how my kids take to it. Cause I have a two year old, a four year old and a nine year old. The two year old is going to be three in January. So he could probably understand, but at least the four and nine year old, I think would enjoy it.

Rebecca Smith:

Absolutely. Oh, you could do teams. You could do kids against parents too. Yeah,

Kayla Nettleton:

that is a good one.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah. then the four year old's probably like a little kind of into it, but the nine year old's like, got it. They know how to write it. They're like, okay, it's y'all's team now. What are we doing? And I love that. Oh, I like that too.

Kayla Nettleton:

back to the is this worth the fight? There are several times when I, and this happened this week, I sent my son in the shirt that he was wearing to daycare the day before because he would not let me take it off. He would not let me take

Kayla Nettleton (2):

off

Kayla Nettleton:

his shirt, or they'll go in their pajamas because they would not let me take it off. And so I'll say, okay, fine, we'll, we'll go like this. And then I tell the daycare, there is extra clothes in his backpack. Feel free to change him if you want. I do know that he is wearing the same clothes as yesterday, but there's clean ones. If he'll let you change it. If

Rebecca Smith:

you figure out how,

Kayla Nettleton:

yeah. Yes. But it's all with whatever you're comfortable with. No, not every mom has to do this. But when I'm asking myself, is this worth the fight? It just takes so much pressure off because Most of the time for me, it's no, it's not worth it.

Rebecca Smith:

Well, I mean, kids have a bunch of different temperaments. I know even between the two of mine, they're very different. But I do think to some extent that's just such a human question, even for a two year old, right? And the answer for a two year old is usually. Yes, this

Kayla Nettleton:

is worth the fight. I am dying on the Hill of wearing the same shirt.

Rebecca Smith:

Exactly. I will die on this Hill. I will not change this shirt. And like you said, if it's negative, whatever below zero, there are times when we have to be in the fight, but there are also times when you're like, You know what, kid? You win! And not a you win of like, that means I lose, but like, I realize this is important to you. I don't understand why it is, and you can't really 100 percent tell me why, but we're gonna go with that today. And I think that there's something really valuable in that for sure.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yes, because this is probably going to be the child who I'm going to have to also fight to take a shower when he gets a little bit older, because my oldest is already like that. He does not want to take a shower and you're like, okay, you have to at least take a shower after soccer practice. And so that is okay.

Kayla Nettleton (2):

But for him,

Kayla Nettleton:

it's like obvious because he's sweating and like covered in dirt. But if it's, not a day where he's sweating and covered in dirt, it's a little bit harder. Forget it. But why? I don't, I don't understand.

Rebecca Smith:

It's fine. I think I smell fine.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yeah.

Rebecca Smith:

Bless you. Yeah, we haven't

Kayla Nettleton:

hit the smelly part yet, but I know we will, we will have some trouble. It's coming.

Rebecca Smith:

It's coming.

Kayla Nettleton:

It's coming. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know we're about out of time, but I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope everyone else has, this was really just talking about what came up for us. And I know it was so fast. I know it does. It goes by super fast. so tell the audience a little bit more about you, if they are wanting to get connected with you, what is the best way to do that?

Rebecca Smith:

Sure. Absolutely. I'm not on a ton of social media, but I do have a YouTube channel that is very new. Please be kind. I'm not very good at it yet. It is at Rebecca A. E. Smith, PhD. We'll link it in the show notes, And I have a blog on my therapy website as well. And we'll link that too. But I mostly talk about perfectionism and anxiety. I mostly work with high achieving women, usually professional women, not necessarily always. But overall the people I work with are dealing with perfectionism and anxiety. And we're in that space of realizing It feels like perfectionism and anxiety got us where we are and it feels scary to let it go. Right. It made me a doctor. It made me a lawyer. It put me in this position and it's not helping anymore. And honestly there was going to be a better way to get there anyway. So how do we keep that fire and keep the success and keep the ambition and make it, yeah. Less painful. Decrease the perfectionism. Decrease the anxiety. So that's what most of my stuff is about.

Kayla Nettleton:

And even just that, like, we could probably continue talking for a whole another hour. I think perfectionist women who enter into motherhood usually do have their, mind or life kind of, you know, blown up.

Rebecca Smith:

Yeah.

Kayla Nettleton:

Baby blows up the life because everything that they had been doing is no longer working for them now that they're a mom and having to care for another human being.

Rebecca Smith:

And even just the little things of like, Your schedule is not your own. Do you have weird random hours where they're sleeping? Yes. Do you get to pick when those hours are? You do not. and also just having this like massive hormonal shift, this massive neurocognitive shift, this massive shift in priorities and trying to find yourself. And, you know, I think that's why. I don't think my answer about self care would have been the same before I was a mom. Yeah, before I was a mom, I was in grad school. I had my own business. there was a lot that I was doing, but there were so many hours of my life that I could be myself. And when you become a mom, whether you're working or not, those hours dwindle to like next to nothing. And you need to figure out how to add that back in. And so figuring out how to be yourself again. Is so huge and being perfectionistic about what that self is going to be is not going to get you very far.

Kayla Nettleton:

Yeah. Yeah. But we have to leave it there, unfortunately. But thank you so much, Rebecca, for giving us your time today and chatting with us.

Rebecca Smith:

Oh my gosh, Kayla. I had so much fun. Thank you so much. Thank you.