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The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Is it really possible to find balance as a mom? Each week, I'll be bringing you inspiring chats, interviews, and dialogues all based around helping moms like you unlock their potential and lead the balanced life they want. If you enjoy listening to topics that help you lead a more balanced life, then you've come to the right place. I'm obsessed with helping moms lead the life they want without the guilt.
With the right information and support, you can find balance in motherhood without sacrificing your needs.
The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Episode 50: From Self-Sacrifice to Self-Care — Understanding Codependency in Motherhood with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT
Ever feel like you’re losing yourself in the demands of motherhood? Join Kayla Nettleton and guest Marissa Esquivel, a licensed marriage and family therapist and host of The Code of the Debbie podcast, for an honest conversation on balancing self-care with the challenges of being a mom. Marissa shares her journey as a new mom, revealing how codependency can subtly impact every aspect of our lives—from our well-being to our closest relationships. She offers insights on the origins of codependency, often rooted in our upbringing, and explains how we unintentionally recreate self-sacrificing patterns that leave us feeling resentful and unfulfilled.
This episode provides practical tips on setting healthy boundaries, reducing resentment, and creating a family dynamic that supports everyone, including you. Marissa discusses how something as simple as rediscovering an old hobby—like watching a favorite reality TV show—can help us reconnect with ourselves. Her approach to maintaining individuality reminds us that even small moments of autonomy make a big difference in our well-being.
Kayla and Marissa also dive into the importance of self-awareness, especially when breaking cycles of codependency, and offer strategies for taking back control in ways that benefit both you and your family. Marissa shares her own experiences in setting boundaries and voicing needs in her marriage—encouraging moms to embrace communication as a tool for lasting change.
Whether you're looking to improve your relationships, connect with your pre-motherhood self, or simply find practical ways to prioritize self-care, this episode is filled with relatable reflections and actionable advice for thriving as a mom while staying true to yourself.
Helpful Links:
Website: www.therapywithmarissa.com
Codependummy Podcast Website: www.codependummy.com
Social Media Handles
@therapywithmarissa
About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.
In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life
Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance
Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com
TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.
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Hello, hello everyone, and welcome back to the Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance podcast. Today, my guest is Marissa Esquivel, and she is a licensed marriage and family therapist in California and the creator of the Code of the W podcast, a show created to help young women stop playing small and start taking up space. She's also a coach to fellow clinicians and a new mother of a baby boy that was just born in February. Thank you so much for joining us, marissa. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:And as the first question that I asked everyone what is your definition of a balanced life?
Speaker 2:My definition. When I think about a balanced life, the word contentment comes to mind. So I don't know if balance is objectively possible, but subjectively my sense is that if and when I feel contentment overall, that can mean that there's an overall like harmony. I don't want to say balance, but yeah, like things are like equally spread, like in my roles, yeah, my day flow.
Speaker 1:So contentment, okay, I like that. I like that. It's like a keyword, like a word to be thinking about instead of like this whole thing, like if you're feeling content, I guess a feeling right. It's attached to a feeling more than it is. Are all of these things in place?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, cause I don't know, as a mom, like that is possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was just about to ask, like, how has this changed since becoming a mom, or do you feel like it has stayed pretty similar?
Speaker 2:My sense of balance or contentment my sense of balance or contentment, this definition of balance that you have for yourself, man, has it changed? Yeah, I mean my mind. My mind says yes. Now there's a whole other being who I am aware of, like most of the time. Sometimes time, sometimes, yeah, I will like. The other day I was working out and I was watching a reality tv show at the same time and I was like so immersed in this reality tv show that I kind of like once my work goes and I was like, oh, like I didn't forget, but I was like, oh, yeah, it's time to meet the Like, and then I kind of came back to reality.
Speaker 2:So I didn't forget.
Speaker 1:I was a mom but that's so rare.
Speaker 2:It's like I think. I remember it because it was like oh wow, I really I was really immersed in that reality TV show. But yeah, like most of the time I consciously and unconsciously and thinking about the schedule and like what's coming next? And yeah, what, I don't know what just happened all related to myself and my baby.
Speaker 1:That experience that you had, where you were fully immersed into that TV show as you were working out, did you view that as a negative for yourself or did you view that as a good thing?
Speaker 2:I did as a good thing. I think it is indicative of the fact that I did have a life for this. Yeah, it was like very. It was a reminder of, arguably, what my life was like before, when, yeah, I didn't have this other being to really think about all the time. So, yeah, I thought it was a good thing. I didn't like, yeah, I didn't forget about him, I just yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a reprieve from they talk about, like mom, math, that was something that I definitely experienced early on, cause, yeah, it's like all that calculating of like, okay, I want to go do this thing, but okay, I have to feed him and then he's supposed to be napping and I have to feed him and like just all the figuring out. And, yeah, I had a nice. You know I I'm sure it was only like the last couple minutes of this workout, but I did. I had this reprieve where I wasn't thinking about that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and there I mean there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And the only reason I asked him is because I know that sometimes there are moms out there that are like, oh, I can't believe I forgot this. I can't believe I forgot this, I can't believe that I was immersed, so immersed in this that I didn't have like a thought about my child. But those things are not bad. It's a good thing to be able to like separate yourself from this like mom role, and I think that was kind of a glimpse for you or it could have been a glimpse for you of, yes, like I still am myself, or I can still have like be myself, like my former self partially, I can bring that, integrate her into this new role of mom.
Speaker 2:I'm not just mom totally, yeah, I'm, I'm very aware of the fact that I will be a extremely active mother for a certain number of years and, yeah, eventually, my, my baby, my you know, unborn children, if ever, whenever they come like they, they eventually will leave and I'm, I'm going to have a lot of time to do other things and so, yeah, I, definitely I, I want to maintain a sense of my independence and autonomy throughout motherhood, active motherhood. So, yeah, when that comes, it's, it's not as the word like violent comes to mind, like violent of a transition.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yes, I mean that that is very common too. I mean, you hear about it right, when you think about like empty nesters. When children leave the home, it's can be hard to adjust, because sometimes our it can be easy for moms like make their whole life about their children and either consciously or unconsciously, like make that decision. Sometimes people like actively make the decision, like no, this is what I'm going to do, this is what I'm here for, like they feel that is their purpose. But then there's other moms who kind of fall in there, like they they really can't describe, like I don't really know how I became this stay at home mom, or this mom who was like fully engrossed in my children but somewhere along the way got lost. And that transition can be hard when the children leave the home.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah, and I know we're going to talk about codependency in more detail, but I I know of a mom who I'm pretty sure she might've been from like the Midwest, but let's say they were from the East coast and she moved her and her husband to the college town where her daughter was attending school.
Speaker 2:Right Cause she wasn't able to, you know, cut the, cut the cord basically. And then, yeah, I've had patients who really were pseudo husbands or wives to their parent, depending on like which parent it was usually the opposite sex and, yeah, they just like became. They were a baby, they were a child, an adolescent, they were an adult child, but they really were almost like a partner to the parent, just not able to move on to the next phase.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's so interesting that you brought that up because I went to the college that I went to. There was this huge. I went to Baylor University in Waco and so a lot of people know Waco because of the Magnolia, the fixer-upper people I Chip and Joanna, I'm like why they're very famous and I can't their names were losing me. I was losing their names. Many people are familiar with that, but there was a lot. I knew of many people whose parents bought a house there so that they could be with their kids while they were at college, like be around, and that completely blew my mind. That was definitely not my experience. My parents did not follow me, but it's, it was a. I had thought about it, like, hmm, that's interesting to to follow your children to their college town and like be there with them and what that means for for those people. Yeah, and this is a really good segue into codependency, because that is your specialty, right, like you work with young adult women and women to break free from codependency. How would you describe it?
Speaker 2:I would say more wrangle, because you just, you just tame it, you just wrangle it in, because it is this beast that can just pervade all relationships. And so I think that becoming more conscious of it, becoming more aware, I think aspects of relationships are inherently codependent, which, yeah, I mean sometimes we're, if we're thinking about the spectrum or continuum of relationship, right, there's independence on one side, there's codependence on the other and there's interdependence in the middle. And I think, depending on the relationship, the situation, we can land anywhere on it. But just being more mindful and aware, we don't, we're not codependency, isn't our only option, which I think for a lot of codependence. That's like well, what is, what is this interdependence? Yeah, there's just no concept.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Did you give your definition or a definition of codependency? Because I know in my own work that many people can get confused by what codependency means and they usually question like, well, shouldn't I be able to depend on people? But that's not necessarily what codependency is.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, but that's not necessarily what codependency is. No, yeah. So my definition is codependency is a way of being where one puts the thoughts, feelings and needs of another above their own in an unconscious attempt to fulfill their own thoughts, feelings and needs. So, for example, with a parent, since we're talking about parenting, if I am a mother and, yeah, let's say that I really love group exercise classes, I did it, yeah, throughout college, throughout my young adulthood I have kids and all of a sudden, it's karate, it's gymnastics, it's science club and like, yeah, there's a part of me that's's like, oh, like I really like love those. Like group exercise classes.
Speaker 2:This is like a need. I need physical movement, I need to be in a group of people, mostly women. I need time by myself. But oh, you know these kids, they just love these extracurricular activities. So let me prioritize their activities over my group exercise for years and years and years, but then hope that, like through this sacrifice, they'll be appreciative, they will, they'll have this need met that their mom is present. And, yeah, like that, I was at every game and so I'm hoping that I eventually will be fulfilled through their needs being met. But most often there's resentment that builds with that and yeah, I don't know, maybe they're not the most appreciative or maybe they take it for granted that you're supposed to just be there all the time and maybe you gain a bunch not a bunch, but a decent amount of weight not taking care of yourself and you have high cholesterol, like long-term. What are the consequences of doing that? And yeah, I would say like a life basically just for others, hoping that your needs will be met through that, but most likely they're.
Speaker 1:They're not going to be yeah, and and to here, a lot of this is unconscious, correct, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't like wake up and think like, okay, I'm going to get my needs met today by taking care of everybody else's needs. No, but it's. It's. Yeah, most likely codependency begins in childhood and, yeah, I would argue that codependent adults likely were codependent with their parents, potentially with a sibling or a friend or all of the above. And there's just this switch, right as a child, where it's not so much about your needs, it's more about the parents, which it's not growing up as a child. Not all of your needs should be met. They really shouldn't.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, my nephew has a need to not wear pants a lot Like you have to. You have to put pants on. I'm so sorry and it's. It's this huge thing, it's a battle. But, yeah, like we. Yeah, it's not like, oh well, mateo needs freedom. No, he doesn't, and so.
Speaker 2:But in general, there is this, this dynamic, where the needs of the child does take precedence and the parents have to create some way where like, yes, like I'm sacrificing certain needs, I'm prioritizing my child's needs, but it's not like a complete switch where the child becomes aware of the parents' needs, right, like, let's say, there's a really overwhelmed mom, okay, and it's just, you know she is doing most of the child rearing, she's working and one of her sons or daughters is like, wow, like mom is really overwhelmed. Okay, I'm going to fulfill her need for order in this house by doing my chores and more right. Or mom's really overwhelmed, she has a need for like recrieve or a break, so I'm gonna follow the rules and not cause or add any burden to what she's carrying. And and then that dynamic in a relationship, right, then it starts to pervade and then, yeah, we really try and like not burden everybody and we really try to create order in all environments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, these are usually unconscious At the beginning. They're they might be like conscious, like making the conscious decision and then cause I'm thinking about that the example that you used with the mom who was really into exercise classes and then as she started busing her children around or collar pulling her children around, she didn't have time anymore for those classes so she didn't go was no longer getting that need met. And these things usually start off small, correct, like it's more of in this example, like you miss one class because you were just so busy, but then one class turned into like then you miss a week of classes and then you miss like the month, and then you're like, oh, I'm not going anyway, I do not have time, and then you don't go at all and then it was just like oh, I don't have time.
Speaker 1:It's not always connected to oh. Oh well, I'm having to do all of these things for my children and I'm not going to go anymore, because I care about them and I'd rather do this.
Speaker 2:It's more of like these slow things that we're not always like noticing, we're thinking like and hopefully one day they will worship and adore me for being so sacrificing but yeah, I think a lot of the time. So I'm definitely a recovering codependent and yeah, in relationships in my family, with friends, I definitely did things and yeah, I, since I did have this like unconscious long-term goal to be revered and loved long-term, like, okay, I'll do this now and then there will be a payoff of loyalty or something commitment.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, and then it and it can come out Cause I I've struggled with this too in terms of my own like achievements and what I achieved and what I decided to do, where I went, wasn't necessarily tied to what I wanted to do. It was more of okay, what? How is this going to maybe make my parents proud? Or how is this and again, like I wasn't thinking this like very consciously in a moment, but I was learning like oh, okay, I get this phrase when I make my parents proud, so I'm gonna choose here, like I'm not gonna go to this college because this one has better, a better name and those, those types of things. And so this resentment piece of I did all of this and I'm not appreciated, this resentment can like being able to point it out, can come later.
Speaker 1:Not that you're thinking in that moment like, oh, why aren't they noticing all of these things I'm doing for them? It's like, oh, they noticing all of these things I'm doing for them? It's like, oh, I have all of this resentment because I realized I didn't make this choice for myself.
Speaker 1:I made it for other people right yeah, and would and would you say that it's I mean, I think it's, I mean both men and women can be codependent and develop these tendencies. But I can see, especially being a mom myself, how it can be very easy for moms to slip into this, into codependency, being codependent yeah, I think societally there's definitely more pressure on mothers and there is a reverence for moms who do sacrifice.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I mean my mind goes to. I'm really not that active on social media. That's a conscious choice for me. And at the same time, I am aware of mom fluencers who are very popular because of these meals they make from scratch for their children Right, Like that's a big thing. Scratch for their children Right, Like that's a big thing. It's like wow, Like she spends so much time making these delicious, organic, nutritious I'm trying to think of the word but just like, like a like a pretty display, yeah. And so, as a viewer of that content, right what is the message?
Speaker 2:and it's like oh well, like you'll be a really good mom, too, if you dedicate the same amount of time and energy to the nutrition of your baby. Yeah and yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know what else that that individual had planned that day, but that that's a lot of time, that's a lot of time, so yeah, so I think that it's hard as moms to, or it's easy to fall into prioritizing the thoughts, feelings and needs of our children, because we honor and respect women who do do that, and so I think it's an easy trap to fall in oh yeah, especially differentiating between what is this codependency that is not helpful for me versus okay, what is my role as a mom?
Speaker 1:Because there's a fine line right, or there can be a fine line.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, I think, trying to think about my baby, right, it's like, okay, I do put his thoughts, feelings and needs above my own. I do, and am I doing that to only fulfill? Yeah, to fulfill myself, or is there this separation that, okay, like this is very time and space specific? Yeah, I'm putting his thoughts, his contentment, speaking of contentment, his happiness will not eventually fulfill my own sense of contentment and happiness. They are separate.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, of course, like, if he is happy and content, like I hope that would give me a little bit of happiness and contentment but, I, think, if we look around, there are like a decent number of happy or content adults and it doesn't necessarily mean that their parents are happy and content or vice versa. And so, yeah, I think it's like based on this, like time and space, yeah, his needs are the priority. They're definitely not going to fulfill my own, as I prioritize his, and so, if and when I can work on my own needs, I will do that.
Speaker 1:Has any of this been a struggle for you? Since you did talk about how, like codependency was something that you struggled with, have you seen anything kind of like creep up in being a new mom?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thankfully not with my baby. Maybe that comes later. I think I think people can be codependent with babies, but with my husband I I noticed, and I have an episode on. This episode is called the absence of needs. I laugh because we, we had the baby and it's not. It wasn't like this like global, universal absence of needs. Like, if I was thirsty, I was like, can you give me a drink? And he would get it. But I noticed that I was.
Speaker 2:I was prioritizing his needs and I was actively suppressing my own like needs for like quality time, for appreciation. I definitely have a need to be appreciated and recognized. I had needs for like affection and yeah, so he receives a lot of fulfillment from work. Okay, and so after a couple of weeks I found myself in this pattern where, like he was working and we both work from home. He he does go out and he has like events, but still we're both working from home, but still we're both working from home. And yeah, he is like on his phone and like he's on his computer and you know, when he's interacting with the baby, he's kissing the baby and loving up the baby, and then you know it's like, okay, we're working all day, it's the evening, we're getting ready for bed, bedtime routine. And, yeah, my like need for appreciation.
Speaker 2:I wasn't verbalizing like you're welcome for doing all these things today, like, yeah, taking care of the baby cleaning, I had help, but still, like you know, I, I was, I was, I was you know, helping around. So I wasn't saying like hey, like I'm I'm feeling underappreciated, and I wasn't like tapping him on the shoulder Like hey, like, can you put your phone down or can you get off your computer for a little bit? We can hang out.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I was just like Nope, marissa, like it's fine, he's working, and then, yeah, he's like loving up on the baby and I'm like, yeah, like where's, where's my hug? Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't verbalizing that.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I, yeah, I think, like consciously and unconsciously, like I was like Marissa, like just let it go, Like he's working, like let him work and like don't worry about it, Like it's okay. Yeah, Like really trying to actively not have these needs because his his need, you know, to be fulfilled in work. It was very explicit, like he was just yeah, I think you know I talked about in the episode how, in times of stress and like transition, we regress into old patterns oh, yeah and yeah historically he has gotten a lot of fulfillment from work, so no wonder postpartum he's like.
Speaker 2:Oh man, like I gotta and then yeah, no wonder postpartum. I'm like, I'm like I have no needs. I have no needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like everything is fine, everything's fine.
Speaker 2:And then it all like culminated in. There was like this one afternoon I talked about in therapy, thank God for therapy. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I started to notice it. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I started to notice it. So I was like journaling about it. I talked about therapy and, yeah, it all culminated in this afternoon where we were gonna have some downtime and I was like, okay, like do you want to put him down for a nap? And and then we'll hang out for a little bit? And he's like no, what do you mean? He's like I have to work.
Speaker 2:And I was like oh yeah, I just I laugh and I talk about this on the podcast, but I burnt him to a crisp, like I was a dragon or Daenerys or or both of them in game of thrones, and it just all erupted right this build-up of my lack of needs and staying quiet.
Speaker 2:I just completely word vomited and said like I need quality time, I need to feel, I need affection. And yeah, he was completely bewildered Like whoa, what just happened? And thankfully he was very calm and we talked about it and thankfully there hasn't been a build up since. But yeah, it just like it was like textbook. Like textbook, like okay, I'm taking care of my baby. I'm prioritizing the needs of my husband. I have no needs and, yeah, hopefully by not having needs, I will feel fulfilled eventually.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, this is so like codependent, it's just yeah, it's really like seeking this fulfillment, yeah, through through meeting the needs of others and not having many of our own yeah, and like you said, like you weren't consciously thinking, oh, I mean, he's gonna be working, like'm going to be good because he's getting his needs met, right, and so you said that thankfully y'all haven't like had that explosion again when you were.
Speaker 1:When you said explosion like, what immediately came to my mind was like this is a really good example of mom rage, how we're. There's a lot of moms who struggle with anger and a lot of the times it is stemming from not getting needs met or not being able to vocalize those things or not even being able to pinpoint what those needs are because of, you know, self abandoning for so long. And then so it takes knowing yourself or intuition, being in tune with yourself to make that realization right. Like you were in therapy or journaling about this. So you started kind of piecing things together, like okay, like I have been pushing away my needs and I need to say something, but it came out in this, in this eruption, right, how, if, if there's someone listening right now and they're like, oh, I feel like that's me, but I don't really know how, like what it is that I'm needing, how can, how can they start recognizing what those needs are?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think well, journaling definitely helped me and therapy definitely helped, which I switched to a perinatal therapist. I think it was like four or five months pregnant when I started working with her because I consciously wanted to have. Yeah, I started working with her, like last fall. I had my baby in February and I remember when we started working together she's like what are your goals? And I was like I want to be connected with you, so when I have a baby, you're all, you'll already be here, Like we will have a foundation, because I'm preparing for the what, yeah, for what I really can't prepare for by having you here.
Speaker 2:It's just like okay, so, yeah, so I feel like having her in place and it's hard. It's so hard. I I think like sleep deprivation had a lot to do with it. I sense that, like breastfeeding, was I. I was surprised. I took classes. I learned about it.
Speaker 1:And also.
Speaker 2:I really like postpartum. I was like holy shit, this is a lot of time.
Speaker 1:This is a lot of time.
Speaker 2:And I yeah, I think like I. Yeah, I think like kind of like grieving that that time and freedom. There's a funny reel on Instagram of the main character in the Hobbit, I forget. He's like, he's like running quickly, like through like his village, like he's like, like, like, like he has to get somewhere.
Speaker 2:And the text says me on my first outing in between breastfeeding sessions, because I know I have two hours 29 minutes and 32 seconds until I have to come back and yeah, it's so precise at least, yeah, for me it was, it was very precise, and so I think, going back to I think sleep deprivation contributed, I think like, yeah, just like the demands for like my time especially it was my body too, but like time that was really hard to navigate. So, having, yeah, I definitely journal, have that in place. I had therapy in place and we even, like we have a marriage meeting once a week. We had that in place. We had just had it like the night before. It wasn't the best and I remember like that's, I think, why I wanted to talk about it in my therapy. This is all. This all happened in like very like quick, so like we had this meeting.
Speaker 2:I'm feeling this way. I talked about it in therapy and then I exploded that afternoon because I was going to talk to him after therapy but I couldn't wait so to have some things in place to prevent a blowout besides journaling and therapy, I mean like a marriage meeting potentially. Yeah, I was already feeling disconnected, so I don't know if I was like as engaged that during that meeting. I don't want to say it's inevitable because it's not and it hasn't been, so maybe I'll talk about like the repair which is after that blow up. My husband was like I am so sorry. I do appreciate everything that you're doing and I will try to verbalize that more which he has.
Speaker 2:We also have a weekly date night, which we've had, and sometimes like the baby comes with us so it's just like whatever, we'll just have the baby, but yeah, like having that like kind of one-on-one time has helped and I can't remember if we did anything else. But then too, like we'll kind of have like daddy days where he's in charge all day, so like every diaper days where he's in charge all day, so like every diaper, every play time, um yeah, if I'm nursing, like that's all I do, I'm literally just a cow that day, and then I I have freedom, so bath, bedtime, yeah, that's all him, so that's been helpful.
Speaker 2:so, yeah, going back, like, what can you do to become more aware of it? I don't know if everyone has a need for quality time, so you don't necessarily have to have weekly dates if that like stresses you out more than helps. But, yeah, trying to, be, aware of your basic needs in a relationship and verbalizing that to partner and finding like collaborating on ways to meet that.
Speaker 1:And I would highlight, if this is a struggle for you, definitely seek support from a therapist who's going to be able to help you weed through some of this and totally recognize what those needs are. If you're struggling to recognize them and if you can't think of anything, then go back to like the most basic needs, like are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting enough food, because sometimes we forget to eat are we getting enough water? It's easy to for those things to kind of go to the back burner because you are so involved in making sure your baby's getting fed, bathed, clothed and well fed when they're infants drinking things. So it's both uh, but yeah, go back to the basics yeah, and yeah, I think I'm really grateful.
Speaker 2:I remember that therapy session. I think my therapist said like hi, how are you? I was like I don't talk about my marriage, like I wasn't playing around. I was ready that session. So it, yeah, it is nice to have that space to reflect and and yeah, again, I talked about this in the episode I feel like I'm just regurgitating, but it's all relevant. I, I don't, I don't want to do that Like, I don't want to explode. I, you know, I talked with my mom about it after and she was very sweet and understanding and she said I, I modeled that in so many words and, yeah, I definitely have like a better understanding of my mom and like her reaction sometimes to certain things. And so, yeah, trying to like you know I sense what you're doing, kayla is like trying to like take some like a look back and see like what contributed to it. So it doesn't have to happen. And I think I grew up watching my mom not really be aware of her needs not necessarily be able to articulate them.
Speaker 2:And so then, yeah, like me, really try and like to identify, like, okay, what are my needs? That's a start, and then being able to articulate them, it's the whole different step. And then you have to like enforce them, because if it's a new need, it might not. It might take some time for a partner or someone else to have have that awareness long-term.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even understanding, I mean as an example for from me, my husband, uh, he's okay. So let me start with me. I need alone time, like I need to like recharge by myself, with no one around. I also breastfed my children, so like I need everyone to be away from me so that I can like get my energy. And my husband did not understand that he was. He could not wrap his mind around this need for alone time, because he loves connection. He never wanted to be alone. He always wanted to like be connecting and have connection, and that's what he thrived on, and so that was something that we had to work through, and I finally had given him an example. I couldn't tell you what that example is now, but it was a light bulb moment for him.
Speaker 1:He's like oh okay and then, looking back, he was always kind of getting his own alone time and he didn't realize that he enjoyed that because he was doing things that he loved. But I was at home, mostly with the kids, while he went and did that, and so I had to make that a priority. Like nope I, I need my own space for me as well, right, but that's that can be scary sometimes to to talk about those things Totally. Yeah, well, we are about running out of time, but I would love to for you to give. If someone is in the California area or a therapist looking for coaching, can you talk a little bit more about what you offer and about your practice?
Speaker 2:Of course yeah. So I'm licensed in California. I work remotely, so I see patients from, I say, san Francisco to San Diego and everywhere in between I work with young adults, so 18 to 35. 35 is a young adult still, and yeah mostly dealing with codependency, depression and anxiety.
Speaker 2:And then for clinicians, I provide coaching one on one and also group. Right now I'm really helping with the this is like very specific to therapists but the complimentary consultation call because, yeah, in my in building my private practice right, I'm out of network, I don't take insurance and, yeah, being able to find patients ready, willing and able to invest in their work with me, I found it very beneficial to become very skilled at that call and so, yeah, so right now I'm offering a consultation call masterclass so people can find out more about my practice or my coaching.
Speaker 2:My website is therapywithmarissacom, and you can send me an email from there as well okay, awesome, and we'll get that late.
Speaker 1:All linked up in the show notes along with the podcast episode that you have noted also today. Okay, sounds good well, thank you so much, marissa, for joining us today and I thought it was a great conversation. Thank you, kayla.