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The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Is it really possible to find balance as a mom? Each week, I'll be bringing you inspiring chats, interviews, and dialogues all based around helping moms like you unlock their potential and lead the balanced life they want. If you enjoy listening to topics that help you lead a more balanced life, then you've come to the right place. I'm obsessed with helping moms lead the life they want without the guilt.
With the right information and support, you can find balance in motherhood without sacrificing your needs.
The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Episode 44: Redefining Balance in Motherhood: Flexibility, Self-Compassion, and Boundaries with Special Guest Sanah Kotadia, LPC
Can you imagine a world where the concept of "balance" in motherhood isn't about perfection, but about flexibility and self-compassion? Join us as we chat with Sanah Kotadia, a licensed professional counselor, who shares her expertise on redefining balance for modern moms. Sanah walks us through her unique approach of visualizing life as a flexible pie chart, helping mothers manage burnout, people-pleasing, and perfectionism. Learn how adapting to daily changes and prioritizing self-care can transform your motherhood journey.
Motherhood isn't without its mental health challenges, particularly anxiety, and the need for community. I open up about my own experiences of navigating anxiety, emphasizing the importance of talking about these feelings to prevent spiraling. We explore the power of mom-to-mom support and the critical role of breaking generational cycles in parenting. From sex education to body positivity, we discuss how to prepare ourselves for these vital conversations, aiming to provide better guidance for our children than we received.
Setting boundaries, especially with in-laws, can be one of the trickiest parts of family dynamics. We tackle the misconceptions about boundaries, discussing how they are about re-evaluating relationships rather than cutting people off. Communication is key, and we stress the importance of clear, ongoing conversations in relationships. Finally, we touch on the benefits of virtual therapy and parenting coaching with a featured therapist who offers nationwide services. This episode is a treasure trove of insights and strategies for navigating the complexities of modern motherhood.
Helpful Links:
Website: https://www.balancedmindstherapy.com/
Social Media Handles
About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.
In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life
Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance
Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com
TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance podcast. Today, my guest is Sanaa, and she is a licensed professional counselor and a dedicated mom to a baby girl. She navigates the unique dynamics of an interfaith marriage, bringing a broad perspective to her work. Specializing in supporting mothers, sanaa understands the challenges of burnout and being overwhelmed by people-pleasing and perfectionism. Her compassionate approach helps moms learn to manage their mental load, set healthy boundaries and find balance in their lives. In her practice, sana focuses on empowering mothers to communicate effectively with their partners and support systems. She provides tools and strategies for addressing perfectionistic tendencies and reducing stress. Sana's empathetic and personalized guidance ensures that her clients feel heard, understood and supported. Through her work, she aims to help moms regain their confidence, prioritize self-care and navigate the complexities of motherhood with resilience and grace. Welcome to the podcast, sana. Thank you for being here today and taking the time to connect with us.
Speaker 2:Hi, thank you so much, kayla. I'm glad that we were able to finally find time where both of us were available. Yes, I'm looking forward to our chat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know you have a baby girl, but it's you know, at the time of our recording it's summertime and we were just talking about how summer can be a little bit crazy and chaotic and sometimes we just need to put things on the back burner, a little bit Like I did put this podcast on the back burner in terms of not pressuring myself to put out episodes, because I think that's often what we do as moms we try and put this pressure to get these things done that we committed to, but sometimes we just have too many balls juggling at one time and it's okay to let one go for a little bit because, you know, maybe it's not going to really affect something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I definitely agree and that's a lesson I had to learn pretty quickly once I became a mom that like it's nearly impossible to keep all, to keep everything going to the standard that you expect yourself to when you weren't a mom. Right, and I think it's important to and that's who I work with right, I work with moms to help them not only recognize that, not only to normalize that, but to, more importantly, to learn how to give ourselves that sort of compassion and recognition and appreciation as we learn to change our standards for ourselves and sometimes for other people too, in this like mom world yeah, because a lot of things changes and not, I wouldn't say, maybe our value, no, no, our values could change in motherhood, but there are a lot of things that change about us.
Speaker 1:But we, before we continue on in this conversation, I need to ask you the question I ask everybody, which is what is your definition of a balanced life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my practice name is balanced minds therapy, which goes so well with your podcast, and when I was trying to come up with the name for my practice, balance kept on coming up.
Speaker 2:And when I but something I really was against is that kind of you know, the 50, 50, or the visual that we get a balance when I thought of balance I actually say this in sessions all the time I think of it almost as like a pie graph right, and every day we get to choose. Well, sometimes we don't get to choose. Every day we have these sets of pies right, and every day, depending on the day of the week, day of the month, the label of the pie and the size of the pie piece changes. So you need that sort of realistic flexibility mindset in your life, mom or not, to recognize that every day is going to look different. So certain days the work pie piece might look bigger than others, certain days the rest pie piece might look bigger than others, and so what I like to tell my clients is, every day, when they're having a tough time giving themselves that the flexibility of it, I tell them to literally draw it out.
Speaker 1:Right, that is such a good idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, A balanced life from my perspective of you have to know that every day and every week, every month is going to look so fluid, but in on some level you have control over that right, Like you can give yourself a sliver movement or a sliver of checking in with a friend, right connection on busy days. So, yeah, that's kind of what I think of balance, especially with the name of my practice. That's what comes up.
Speaker 1:Okay well, thank you for that, and and I really like that visual that you've given about the pies and not that this is the first time that we've heard about the pie, but I really liked that you brought up how this is something that can change every day, and because I think what happens is we will have this belief that every day, I'm going to wake up and I'm going to have 100% to work with, or we put this pressure on ourselves to give our 100% every day, but the reality is is we don't always have 100% to give. Sometimes we're going to wake up and we're going to to be sick, or our allergies are going to be out of control, or someone in the family is sick and we won't have 100%. We might have 75 or 60. And so that's where you're looking at some of the pie and formulating where you're going to put that energy, and you get to choose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and nobody wakes up in the morning and says, today my potential is X, but I'm only going to give Y, right, you know, going back to that 100% of what is my 100% today, that's the other thing, right? What your 100% looks like every day changes, right? So you're still coming out with a full pie. You're not going to come out with a pie piece missing completely. That's just not how our world, or especially the American system. It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2:We're expected to kind of go, go, go, go go. So you have to decide. Okay, this is my 100% today, especially now that I'm a mom man. Just a quick tangent I used to be so busy before I was a mom and now, when I reflect back on it, I was like I had a ton of downtime, like that was so subjective and just like a lot you know. So that those but those days I remember I just had more calls, or I would. Both my values and priorities were different.
Speaker 2:So I still felt fulfilled and accomplished and tired in some ways, but now, with a human that you're taking care of, it's like wait. It just looks completely, completely different of what that hundred percent is.
Speaker 1:I think what probably happens is as when we become mothers, our time is so much more precious than we viewed it before becoming moms Like, yes, we know that we only have so much time, but it's almost as if when you become a mom and then also when you get a little bit older, time just feels like it's going by so much quicker. So then you're like oh my gosh, I have to savor this time. I have to use this time wisely and for what is actually important to me.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% I agree, and you know my daughter. She was born in December, so it goes with the calendar year, so that makes me feel like it's easier for me to be like, wow, this year is going by so fast, and not only. And then I don't know if you do this, I'm sure you do, but I tend to like we have this shared family album of just pictures of my daughter and we tend to sometimes go through like her newborn pictures.
Speaker 2:And sometimes I'm like I can't believe that was just December and sometimes it feels like a different lifetime and that time passage, just that perspective is so different now, like daily and also long-term for sure.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean that newborn stage is like it's a whole thing in and of itself. It's like how did we survive?
Speaker 2:No, no one has the answer. Nobody needs to have the answer. As long as we like push past that stage together as a community and a society like that was of the past, we don't need to discuss it. So, but yeah, it's, it's wild, and you know, you said something about like our time is so precious.
Speaker 2:I think along those lines, energy is now so much more precious, right, Because my daughter, she's not moving yet, like she's not crawling yet, and I'm just waiting for the day where she starts crawling and I'm like man, my time and energy is going to look so different then, because then it becomes even more about, like, keeping her safe, you know. So it's just interesting how you know this mom and you know, before I became a mom I would work with moms, but not intentionally, it just they happened to be mom clients, but they weren't. I wasn't marketing myself towards moms, and so now that after becoming a mom, it really we kind of talked about this when we chatted earlier it really just completely changes who you are and you don't know. It's so hard, Like now what I know about being a mom. I thought I knew pre-mom life and I really didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah it. It reminds me of that. There was an article that came out. It's been a few years now, but it was almost like an apology letter to moms, I don't know if you remember and it was basically this woman. I think she worked in corporate, or it alluded that she worked in corporate and she was apologizing because she didn't get it. She didn't understand why moms would maybe come in a little bit late and then they would be the first ones out the door and basically, why weren't they as dedicated? And it's not that they're not dedicated, they're juggling things and just because they're leaving first thing as soon as they can doesn't mean that they're not doing work at home. It doesn't mean that they're not maybe later coming back to the office. Not that I'm saying that you should. You absolutely should not.
Speaker 1:But we don't know what else is happening for these women who come in a little bit late and then leave as soon as they can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after I became a mom, I sent an apology text to one of my friends who had become a mom a year before. Like her, her child is a year, exactly a year, older than my my daughter and I was like man, I I just didn't get it. You know, you ask the questions that you think you're supposed to ask and you do the things that you kind of see what, like you hear about in movies and in books and you kind of like hear in passing, but you're just, I just wasn't asking the right questions.
Speaker 2:you know, and, of course, it's like you don't, like you said, you don't know until you know and it since becoming a mom. What I will say is I am just so impressed and humbled by how kind other moms are to me, whether it's in my personal life, whether it's even my clients, whether it's, you know, on social media if I everyone is, because I think moms know how hard it is to be a mom, and so it it sometimes brings me to tears just how sweet and kind and empathetic this community is. Yeah, it's. I mean, we're all really strong people to be moms and to have gone through this journey.
Speaker 2:It's definitely not for the faint of heart and and and I don't know if you were like this when you first became a mom I know you're a mom of multiples, but I am also not the type of mom I thought I would be. I thought it just just very different and just a lot more protective and possessive than I thought, because that's just really. And so my husband's like wow, I just, I just wasn't, I just wasn't expecting this. So that's also been kind of a learning curve in my personal life of you know, talking about our values changing and our identity changing. I also think you know as like fun and how much joy it's brought. It also affects your mental health, right?
Speaker 2:Like the anxiety that comes with it's nonstop, right Like anxiety that comes with it's nonstop, and as somebody who's baseline is basically anxious you know, you know as many of us women. You know it really can take a toll on you. If you're not, you know I'll speak on just my behalf. It can take a toll on me if I don't talk about it, whether it's to my girlfriends or whether it's to my husband, because then I'll kind of just like ruminate and spiral and I won't even realize that, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:That's actually part of the reason why I wanted to make it, make my social media about moms, because I noticed whenever I say things out loud that I'm like, oh it, maybe it's just when I know it's not me, but you know, like my thoughts, that is when moms will kind of come to me and be like me too. Or I went through this and and again. That goes back to just like how sweet moms are and like how. How many of us are just lonely and isolated in this too.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And I would say I've, I'm not the mom that I thought I would be. Yeah, and part of that is you again like going back to time. You don't realize how fast time will go and you think that you have more time than you actually have, or you are thinking that your child is younger than they actually are. My son is going to be nine. He'll be in fourth grade, so he's like one of the youngest in his class and so nine, like that's. He's like going into you know, preteen puberty stuff soon, and we haven't had a bunch of conversations about that and you think like, oh, you have so much time, but no, it couldn't happen at any moment. Like things can start changing at any moment and if we haven't had those conversations, if I haven't had the conversations with him, then he's going to be maybe blindsided or surprised when things start changing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and that's the other thing, right One. I used to be a middle school teacher, so you and I can chat off camera and I can give you some tips on how to if you need it, because that's like the birds and the bees, that's just like a whole different conversation, but it's all just so much easier said than done, right? I'm sure when your son was younger or you know pre-mom life, it's like oh, of course, like we're gonna have this conversation at this time. This is what it's gonna look like, and like on paper we have everything mapped out, right, and then, when it comes to like speaking on it, we have to go through just so many different variations of what the outcome could be. And it's like am I saying things right? Did I just traumatize him? Did I shut him down?
Speaker 1:yes and none of that is taught anywhere no no, and so I wish you luck with it, with those conversations and I'm actually excited because I didn't have the best conversations around that topic for myself. So I I think that's the other thing I want it to be. I want it to be a certain way. So, yeah, I don't feel as prepared, so I'm in the works of preparing myself to have, I guess, the best conversation that I can have. Right, it's not going to be perfect. I still might say something that he's not going to understand or that's going to go over his head, because what I had gotten when I was younger was literally like the birds and the bees analogies, but that is so vague I don't even understand the birds and the bees and like why it's called that.
Speaker 2:Like I don't, that's like science, like you have to know science. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, but I think it's just literally, because birds lay eggs and women lay eggs and then bees pollinate and then, like guys, technically pollinate, but it doesn't connect At all Like why?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I did not get a conversation at all about this first generation immigrant. I don't. I know my parents weren't taught to have these conversations and, to be quite frank, I don't think it was even something on their mind, because they were just trying to survive at that time, you know. And so that's the other thing. We have this pressure or the privilege, like however you kind of want to look at it to change the cycle right, and so when we want to change the cycle, we again want things to go a very specific way. But, like you said many times, they don't.
Speaker 1:But just because they don't does not mean that it didn't go well yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I actually stumbled upon a resource that I've been meaning to check out her videos. I've listened to one of them and I've listened to a lot of her reels and I love what she's doing. But I will I can't remember off the top of my head, but I will drop it in the show notes if you're interested in having conversations with your children about, about sex and about how to have those conversations at age appropriate times, and it's not not just about sex, but also about body positivity and keeping yourself safe and having your children keep themselves safe when they're maybe around different people.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2:I would like that as well, you know, I mentioned earlier, I used to be a teacher and so I would have those as well. You know, I mentioned earlier, I used to be a teacher and so I would have those conversations a lot, but it was. I was not taught how to have those conversations. Yeah, you just learn as you go. Like, does this make sense? This is not, and I now, as a parent, I don't, like I can only imagine what their home was like, home life was like for them to come to you, know their their writing teacher and and talk out their concerns because that is, as you know, in seventh grade, which is like the peak of the beginning of it all, and so, yeah, that's that.
Speaker 2:That. That also just shows kind of like where your values and priorities as a mom are and how hard you're trying to show up for for your son in the moment. Right, because it doesn't just come to us. That's the other thing about motherhood. You know the word like mental load, mental load, default parent, like we kind of throw it around now like buzzword, yeah, but sometimes I really again, I didn't know until I knew you know, like how?
Speaker 2:how so even you doing this research? I was talking about this right now and then you know, the prep that goes behind that tiny little conversation or, you know, multiple conversations, it it takes so much time and energy, kind of what we said earlier it takes so much time and energy, kind of what we said earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and lucky for me, I I breastfed all my children.
Speaker 2:He's the oldest so he saw me doing these things, so we've had conversations.
Speaker 1:We've started having conversations about different things, so I know that that helps. Like he has a foundation and my husband is also a rancher so he has seen, you know, stuff in nature. So this is not, it's not going to be a total surprise and I think that's where some of the pressure is let off. Like I know my son knows some of this stuff all right Translating this into like human connection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and just like this is about like a conversation between a child and his parents about something that is important in in our world and how can we educate and create that safe space. And so, yeah, I, I'm I'm so sure that you're going to go in with with so much safety and it's going to go so well yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 1:Mean I know this conversation and these conversations really set the stage for. Will our children trust us when they're starting to get older to ask a certain questions about anything Like are they going to trust us to come to us instead of going to their friends or looking for stuff online? That we're going to give them the right answer and not like beat around the bush about stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's so. I'm so glad that this topic even came up, because I think we start that sort of connection and safety at such a young age.
Speaker 2:Right, you started that bond with your son at like when he was months and days old. Can I turn to my mom and dad for safety, emotional and physical? Can I let my mom know through my facial expressions that I'm uncomfortable or I'm scared or I'm happy? And I'm appreciating her? And you know, topics like this are, like you said, like so detrimental to whether or not they will continue to lean on you. Like so detrimental to whether or not they will continue to lean on you as they get older. They're kind of like going back to the balanced pie, like you know. You may be a sliver for a second and then go back to being a fourth or whatever it may be, but the fact that they continue to come back home, physically or not, but you know, just remember that we are them, we love them, we will always be there for them.
Speaker 2:That's something I feel like that our generation as parents, we're trying so much more to do than, stereotypically, our generation of parents, right, and that, again, that has nothing to do with the amount of love that there is between a parent and child, it just has to do with all the other aspects of it. Right, and that, again, that has nothing to do with the amount of love that there is between a parent and child, it just has to do with all the other aspects of it. Right? Whether or not we're financially stable, so we have the time and energy to think about these things, whether or not we have the knowledge to recognize the importance of doing research and having these conversations, whether or not we have the resources to you know, even something that what we think now is simple as the internet.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, like that, yes, yes, I mean having access to this woman who is giving this education to help other parents have these conversations. If I didn't have that, oh my gosh, we'd be trying to read books, and no one has time for that right now. And where do you?
Speaker 2:get these books, like what books you read? Yeah, and so I. Yeah, just so so much has changed for the better. Or when it comes to the opportunity that parents of our generation have that are that our parents didn't. That I think it can. Of course it's great. But again, I find that with my you know the moms that I speak to in my world there's always that pressure of will I do it perfectly Because I have the opportunity and I have the resources? I, so I should be able to do it perfectly. And you know the? The answer to that is there is no perfect way of doing it Like. There is no like if you Google it or if you look it up, or if you ask God or whatever. There is no perfect answer to these questions.
Speaker 1:You know and we put that.
Speaker 2:we start that narrative in our minds and continue on with it, especially as moms, and that's where I feel like prioritizing your mental health can be so beneficial in motherhood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and everything's also a learning experience. So say maybe you said the wrong thing or something didn't come out the way you wanted or your child didn't completely understand. You can come back and say hey, you know what? I'm sorry, I did not explain this very well. Let's try again. And they're going to appreciate that so much and learn from you. Modeling these apologies and trying.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, definitely. It's this idea of not in the example that you gave. It's not necessarily repair, but acknowledgement, right, that there can be mistakes, there can be future conversations, there can be edits, there can be add ons, just like when you're in the real world. You get to do that.
Speaker 2:I feel like some you know I used to, like I said I used to be a teacher, I think in order to set certain boundaries and structure in grade school, kids are kind of taught it's either A, b, c or D, right and the truth of the real world is that it's never just A, b, c or D, right, it's A and then this and then that and then this, and that equals kind of what you have, the task or the goal went, and so it takes so much unlearning and relearning as adults for us to, for lack of better words, not give ourselves a grade on things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Because, yeah, you're right, we're almost taught, like in those kind of standardized questions, that there is going to be a black and white answer, when in reality there's never really a black and white answer. There's always some gray in the choices that we make, whether we recognize that or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there has to be right, and we need to recognize the why behind where there is, why there needs to be gray, because we don't live in a world that is black and white. You know, simple things like the internet might not work, the bus might come late, we forgot lunch money, we forgot to fill up gas, so now we're going to be late for work. We, I don't, whatever it may be like. Those all are things that are great, right, yeah, just because we forgot lunch money does not mean now we're going to starve for the rest of the day. It just means that you're going to get a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, right?
Speaker 2:So, and I think that, like we need to, as moms, remember that that mindset, that everything that you do for your child, for yourself, for your marriage, for your career, for your own parents, is going to be shades of gray and that they're like, even if it's so close to white or so close to black, it's, it's never going to be perfect and it's never going to be failure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I that's a really great segue into the conversation that we initially had thought about talking about, which is setting boundaries, especially when it comes to boundaries within laws or even probably, boundaries with our own parents. I feel like we're often taught that these boundaries are going to be straight, right or almost black and white, so that they're gonna be easy. But the truth is, some of these boundaries are not going to be black and white. There is gonna be a little bit gray, because we get to make those boundaries for what we want them. Just because your friend has maybe stricter boundaries and your other friend has more flexible doesn't mean you have to do it in that same way yeah, sorry, I was drinking my coffee.
Speaker 2:yes, why yes? And I think the whole, I the whole idea of boundaries is again right, like I feel like what? What I noticed? And you tell me what your thoughts are on this? What I noticed is when people come to me, they're pretty exhausted by a certain situation.
Speaker 2:That's why they've chosen to reach out to a therapist Right and so hardly ever is it like I'm going to be proactive, that there's a small group of that, but it's usually like I've kind of run out of choices and I need somebody else's help, and so when it comes to the topic of boundaries, they're kind of on the other side of the pendulum of I got to fix it, I got to stop it, I got to protect myself. So what is the most structured, rigid, quick way I can make? Whatever's hurting me stop, and you kind of have to bring the client back into the middle of you're okay, you have actually more control and more power, and the more you ground yourself in reality and in data of you are, first and foremost, safe right now, you can then think with more clarity, with more motivation, with more dedication instead of with reaction right. And so when we're setting those boundaries, I really encourage my clients, whether it's with in-laws or not, to think a little bit more long-term. Will, the two-week from now, sana be happy and content?
Speaker 2:with and content with the boundary and the two months on end, the two year Sana, and a lot of times I find that, like they really it's like the two days and I will be happy, and then the two weeks they'll be like wait, is this sustainable, Right? Do you? Do you notice that in your clients when it comes to boundary setting, where it's like I kind of got to fix it right now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. What I will see is that my client, they want to fix it right now, but they do not see that they can because they think their only option is like, well, I need to cut this person off. Yeah, when that's what their fear is is, setting the boundary means cutting people off, and that's I always tell them, like that's the worst case, last resort, worst case scenario, last resort is having to cut someone off, and usually, most of the time, you don't have to cut someone off, but it's about thinking about, or it's about viewing the relationship maybe different than you were viewing it, or viewing the relationship different than how you expected that relationship to be, and that can help with setting a more appropriate boundary for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that again, that fluidity is so important the flexibility and recognizing that most of the time and if we're and I'll go back to in-laws most of the time when we're thinking about in-laws, whether it's your own in-laws or your own parents for your partner, everyone's goal is to get along right let's give everybody the benefit of the doubt right?
Speaker 2:Everyone's goal is to get along and be supportive, to their own child at least, and help their child's marriage flourish, and so I also think it's so important to, when thinking and talking about in-laws, to remember that they are human and give them grace and really think about their intent, on how they, how they treat you. That is not to say that you know they're always right or the way they treat you is, you know, always perfect.
Speaker 1:But, especially.
Speaker 2:You know, something that I really push, my clients and I really value in my own life is whenever I'm going to be with my in-laws or my parents are going to be here or we're going to be visiting them, my husband and I do so many check-ins, whether it's we talk about it leading into the trip and we talk daily, and then we talk after the trip too, and I think it's so important to feel safe and supported by your partner in all of this right Because, at the end of the day, even if you've been married to your partner for 20 years, you're still the newest one in the family in that family dynamic right, and I think it's really important to recognize that these people are in your life because of your partner, not because they're not your friends.
Speaker 2:And so how do we create a foundation of effective communication, active listening, empathy, compassion in our marriage so that then that bleeds into how your partner can support you with your in-laws?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean, you definitely have to have trust within your own partnership in order to navigate any of those other relationships, whether that's relationships with your own parent or relationships with your in-laws.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that can only happen if you're vulnerable with your own partner. Right.
Speaker 2:And that can only happen if you're vulnerable with your own partner. Right? So many times we see in marriages where it's like well, this subconscious narrative of well, they love me, so they should understand me. Like why don't they get it, you know? And it's like, well, have you told them? It's like, well, I told them that one time. It's like, well, did you tell them again? It's like, well, why do I have to tell them again? It's like, cause you're human. They probably forgot. You know they married you at the end of the day, so they obviously care about you. You married them. You obviously know that they care about you. So why not again give them grace in having similar conversations over and over again and recognize every time, every time we have a conversation about a tough topic, is my partner understanding me more and more right, and every time we have tough conversations from their perspective, am I understanding them more and more?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely and that's and I go ahead, you go, you go, you go.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, that's part of learning about each other. You will never get to a point where you absolutely know everything about your partner, and that's what makes being in a relationship fun over time is continuing to learn about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and and knowing that. I think that sort of curiosity I think people need to. People need to remember that that it's okay to not know everything and it's okay that you're changing and you're part that's part that's that's. That's part of life's evolution. You're not supposed to be the same person at 20, at 40, that would be horrible Like you're, oh yeah, no, it'd be great. I think about my 20 year old self and no, I don't want that for anybody, including.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know my partner and, and I think, going back to to boundaries, when what? The other thing that I think it's important to to remember is, um, when you're, when you're creating your boundaries, whether with in-laws or not, I also think it's really important to talk out or write down what are the specific boundaries. Sometimes people will kind of be like, well, I just want them to be nice, or I just want them to get me, or why are they like this? Which is out of all frustration and feeling scared, right, but they're such vague statements and I think once we kind of boil and scaffold them down a little bit, then we get more clarity, then we can talk to our partner, then our partner can give us their perspective, then we can talk to either the in-laws or your partner can talk to them about it. But if you're just like, hey, why are they behaving like this? It's like wait, like like what you know, and I think, being more specific and understanding your why, right, so really big.
Speaker 2:I'll share a little bit about me was a really big boundary that I kind of set to when I first got married was I wanted to spend time whenever I was with my in-laws. I wanted to spend time when I was with them, not in the kitchen With South Asian women. My daughter-in-law is like, oh, why don't you go help in the kitchen? And I really didn't want to be that daughter-in-law who's just like constantly in the kitchen, because I just didn't want that for myself. And so that was a conversation I had to have with my husband prior to and we could, and that we had to kind of come up with. Well, what can I do to help his mom in the kitchen? That I feel comfortable with and is kind, and that also doesn't mean that I'm like in the kitchen pre-dinner, post-dinner, doing everything.
Speaker 2:Not that she ever expects anything from me, but of course that those societal expectations right. And we had to have continual conversations about that, me and my husband. And, to be quite frank, every single time we go I avoid going into the kitchen. So my husband kind of has to like nudge me and remind me, and I have to remember that he's not against me. We had five to 10 conversations about this is what we came up with together, and then I'll kind of go. And of course every time she's like you're fine, and so and I go right back I'm like, okay, I did what I was supposed to do. So you know, did my thing and you know, set my boundary, and now there's that understanding between me and him, and she also.
Speaker 1:Now has data. I feel like what I like to do and she's very responsible of it. Yeah, and it's about figuring that out for yourself, like that works for you, that might not work for someone else, and that's okay. Your boundaries are going to look different, and sometimes the boundaries, I think, what also comes up. What I noticed with clients is they feel like every boundary has to be voiced, but some boundaries don't have to be voiced to the person. It's just a personal boundary that you make with yourself, because boundaries are about you.
Speaker 1:They're not about the other person. They're not about manipulating the other person to do what you want them to do. I think that's another fear people have, isn't?
Speaker 2:boundaries manipulating. No, you know as you know, of course, but there's two different types of boundaries there's internal boundaries and there's external boundaries, and sometimes the conversation to create an external boundary is just not appropriate, right In some cases where you know you're not going to be given that safe space and that active listening, where you know you're not going to be given that safe space and that active listening.
Speaker 2:And so you have to decide on your own is this particular situation worth the internal or the external right? And you have to decide, and a lot of times that's something, yes, my clients struggle with a lot where it's like well, if I don't voice it, what does that say about me? If I don't, like, do what I'm supposed to do or what they thought I would do, what does that say about me?
Speaker 2:Am I selfish and I always try and tell them two things right. One there's a big difference between selfishness and self-care. Right, With selfishness, there's this intent of hurting somebody else, and a lot of times we get those two words mixed up, because self-care is prioritizing yourself without the intent of hurting somebody else right.
Speaker 2:And the other part of this is I think it's important to remember that boundaries allow for growth right when things allow for growth. Usually part of the formula is guilt right, especially in boundaries. Right when we're growing, when we're trying new things, we're putting certain things behind us and that can bring up a lot of guilt of. Am I again going back to, am I being selfish? And so I always say guilt is part of the formula when you're setting boundaries, just because you're feeling guilty, that does not mean you're doing something wrong.
Speaker 2:Women girls at such a young age are taught to feel guilty for so many things right, and so the example that I gave from my personal life there was a lot of guilt there when I was setting that boundary of in the kitchen because I'm blessed with my mother-in-law, and so there was always this like am I being too harsh? But I also knew what I needed in my marriage and in my relationship with them in order to long-term not build resentment Right. So I think it's so important to and therapy can help a lot with this too finding that balance of what short-term Sana and what long-term Sana would really appreciate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that. That indication like two, two days, sana might be feeling good about this, but two weeks or two years from now she may not. This is not sustainable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that only that reflection only came about once I started talking about those topics to my husband. Right? And and I think that's the biggest part about setting boundaries, is the communication piece right? If it's an internal boundary, are you communicating with yourself about what your needs are, why your needs are, what the goals are? And if it's external, are you talking to the person that that needs to be talked to about this?
Speaker 2:So many times that piece is kind of avoided because it requires so so much vulnerability, even if it's within ourselves, because oh yeah, it takes so that's sometimes for me even harder than talking to somebody else, because it's like, oh, just like, just do it already, but it's like you have to kind of, you have to break it down in order to understand your needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely well, we are like running out of time here. You know, continue this conversation. Maybe we even shoot like a second episode later, but because I know we can continue having this conversation about setting boundaries, because we, like, just scratched the surface right, yeah just like barely introduced this topic, but for our listeners, can you talk a little bit more about your practice? And if someone listening is like I really want to work with her, she'd be the perfect therapist for me. How can they get in contact with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram. It's just my practice name, balanced minds therapy, or my website, which is balanced minds therapycom.
Speaker 1:And can you give a little bit of information about your practice? Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I missed that. Yes, so I currently work with moms who struggle with this trifecta of perfectionism, people pleasing and poor boundaries right. And when I say perfectionism it has nothing to do with how I look or how my desk is organized. It has more to do with how you want others to view you right. So this pattern of consistently setting really high expectations for yourself that are unrealistic to attain, consistently it has this fear of making mistakes, fear of delegating things to others because we're thinking in all or nothing mindset.
Speaker 2:And if I delegate things to others. What does that say about me? Because why can't I handle everything? Also, thinking about asking for help and vulnerability is really really tough, right. So that's the perfectionistic part. And then the people pleasing part is, of course, putting others needs before our own, putting making sure that we are valuing and being led by others values instead of our own, and then feeling isolation and even resentment. And then, of course, that's where the core boundaries come in as well.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm a fully virtual practice. I for for therapy, I see clients in Texas, and then for parenting coaching, I see clients all around the country.
Speaker 1:Awesome, we didn't even talk about your parenting coaching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know we will have to do a second episode.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, we will Okay. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and I hope you have a good rest of your week.
Speaker 2:Thanks, you too.