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The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Is it really possible to find balance as a mom? Each week, I'll be bringing you inspiring chats, interviews, and dialogues all based around helping moms like you unlock their potential and lead the balanced life they want. If you enjoy listening to topics that help you lead a more balanced life, then you've come to the right place. I'm obsessed with helping moms lead the life they want without the guilt.
With the right information and support, you can find balance in motherhood without sacrificing your needs.
The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Episode 39: Aligning Actions with Values for a Balanced Life With Special Guest Ashley Fields, LCSW
Join us as we welcome Ashley Fields, a licensed clinical social worker and mother of two, to share her invaluable insights on living a balanced life. Ashley opens up about the importance of understanding personal values and the radical acceptance of our limitations within a 24-hour day. She emphasizes the necessity of being honest with ourselves about our capacity and the dangers of comparison. Together, we discuss the intentional alignment of actions with values, especially in a culture that often prioritizes performance and time commitment.
Motherhood is a transformative journey that reshapes priorities and boundaries. Ashley discusses how aligning personal choices with genuine needs can lead to greater patience, presence, and engagement with loved ones. We cover the integration of professional and personal pursuits while managing the inherent challenges of parenting. Ashley's advice on setting boundaries and practicing self-compassion, particularly when dealing with perinatal anxiety, is crucial for fostering a healthier, more balanced life.
Facing perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) firsthand, Ashley shares her experience from the onset of suicidal ideation to stabilization through medication and therapy. She offers practical guidance on recognizing PMADs and connecting with mental health resources. Don’t miss this episode filled with profound wisdom and practical tips for balancing motherhood, personal well-being, and professional life.
Helpful Links:
Website: https://www.elevatetherapyllc.com/
Social Media Handles
Instagram: @elevatetherapyy
About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.
In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life
Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance
Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com
TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.
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Welcome back everyone to the Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance podcast. I'm your host, kayla Nettleton, and our guest today is Ashley Fields. She's a licensed clinical social worker and mom of two, who is passionate about work with women and improving perinatal mental health. In the US, ashley has worked for the last 13 years in nonprofits focused on strengthening families. She spent four years running an internship program and providing supervision for therapists in graduate school. Ashley teaches MSW students at Indiana University. She is the owner of Elevate Therapy and Consulting, where she helps women to rediscover themselves in the midst of pregnancy, postpartum and career transitions. Welcome, ashley.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Kayla.
Speaker 1:Yes, and thanks for being here and taking the time out. I know like, as therapists, our schedules can sometimes be a little bit crazy, so thank you again for taking this time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. This is something I love to do, things like this. So it's nice to have the space, gives me a little bit of extra life, fills me up.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so, with the question, I asked everyone what is your definition of a balanced?
Speaker 2:life. I literally just had a conversation with my own therapist about this this week, and it's something that I have been contemplating for well over a year myself, just as I have moved into private practice. Part of the reason that I did that was around balance, and so I think for me there are several different components of what that looks like. There is an understanding of what your values are right Like. What are the things that are important to me and how do I want to show up in the world for the people that I love, including myself, my family, my friends. You know what responsibility do I feel I have to my clients? And then how do I want to show up for myself? I think my values around that are really important for how I find my own balance. And then I think with that I don't know if you have any like very type A listeners that feel like they have to do it all, but what I have learned, probably the hard way, is that I have to have some radical acceptance around the fact that there are 24 hours on a day, hours on a day, and that all of the things that I might want to do or feel obligated to do just may not always have the possibility of getting done. And then I have to be honest about my capacity.
Speaker 2:Something that I learned in doing work helping people for a long time is that I am not ever the therapist that could see 30 people in a week. I don't have that capacity. And so I think I really I value one-on-one connection, so my values are there. I have to have radical acceptance around the fact that I can't do it all. I have to have honesty around my capacity, which is that I I if I want to show up as the best version of myself, both for my clients and therapy and then to my kids after I'm done. At the end of the day, I have to really limit the number of people that I see and not judge myself for that. I really have to stay out of judgment, because there are people that have the capacity to do that and comparing can be hard. And then I think intentionality is the last piece, like I really have to for me. I have to take intentional steps towards my values and towards my capacity, and that's when I feel like in the best place, balance, wise.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. I think what a lot of people struggle with, too, is that intentionality taking that time to really think about what is important to us, what do we want to prioritize, and giving ourselves the permission to do that.
Speaker 2:Sure, I think it's so easy to like live life on autopilot, right? You do the things that you have to do without ever considering what your values are underneath that, and then we get to feeling tired and burnt out or unfulfilled and we wonder why we're there.
Speaker 1:But we've never stopped to ask ourselves what we care about and if the actions that we're taking, if they're purely obligation and not centered in the things that we care about, or if there's some sort of overlap, you know oh yeah, absolutely, and part of that, too, is sometimes because, yes, there I am like 90 positive, that there's many type a people or recovering perfectionists and people pleasers because I'm one myself that we've learned, like the hustle culture, we've learned things that what is the word Leave us at risk for burnout, yeah, and we've learned all those strategies because that's what we were getting praised for and it's hard to disconnect from that and find a different way because we are so connected to that praise and getting things done and what that means about us yeah, absolutely like in culture in the US, like there's so much expectation for performance, for not just like hard work but the amount of time that you're putting into something.
Speaker 2:Then you think about like motherhood and the expectations to just balance it all and figure it all out and do it all well, like that expectation is so, it's so weighing, and then it makes it difficult to feel like you have the capacity at times to to check in and figure out if you're like living the life that you want to be living in the way that you want to be showing up, or if you're just doing what you feel like other people are expecting you to do but again that takes you having the willingness to slow down and really think is this what I want for myself?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is this what I want for my family? And I loved that you had brought up paying attention to how you want to show up. Not just paying attention to all the things we want to do, but how we want to show up in the world with our for ourself, for our families.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I, a year or two in from this process of like, slowly but surely chipping away at like what balance looks like for me, I would say at the front of that journey I felt like it was oh, look at all of the things that I want to accomplish. And today it's much more well, how do I want to show up? I don't really care. You know my accomplishment will come.
Speaker 2:but if I don't feel good about how I accomplished what I accomplished, then, then that's a problem for me, and so it's almost become more important and more forefront in my mind that I go through the journey, not just get the end result, but go through the journey as the person that I want to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is such a fantastic reframe for that, because a lot of us are successful and when we have goals or we have ideas that we want to achieve, a lot of the times especially for our listeners they're going to achieve those things and it's so the success is inevitable. But how can we achieve that success? Without burning ourselves out, without spreading ourselves too thin?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can you talk? You were mentioning radical acceptance. Can you talk a little bit more about what that means for you?
Speaker 2:mean radical acceptance. Can you talk a little bit more about what that means for you? Yeah, I think for me it is giving up the internal battle for perfection instead of getting mad that the idealized version of what I hoped the future would look like, or the present would look like isn't how I I think radical acceptance for me has been working to like be both realistic and hopeful at the same time, being able to hold those things at the same time.
Speaker 2:Being able to hold those things at the same time being realistic and being hopeful and, I think, also staying out of judgment around my humanity, so staying out of judgment around my limitations. Radical acceptance is not like being angry that I can't see 30 hours a week and show up for my kids. Radical acceptance is saying, yeah, like my, my ideal week is is three days a week with, you know, seven to 14 people that I see, so that I can be done at 4 PM and then and then go be with my kids. And I understand that I am not going to show up how I want to show up if I do more than that. And instead of being angry that I don't have more capacity than what I do kind of flipping that and capacity than what I do, kind of flipping that and having a sense of gratitude that I do now understand that about myself so that I can show up how I best show up. Did that answer?
Speaker 1:your question, oh yeah, yeah. And how? How has that allowed you? What I want to say is like how has that set you free? That sounds so cheesy, but how has that given you like more energy and time with your kids, like changing that idea?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's interesting that that's the question you asked, because, like the word that was coming up for me me like after I got done talking was like there's a sense of freedom there, like it's a, it's a lighter self, it's a weight off my chest, and I think I think it has given me freedom in multiple ways.
Speaker 2:I think from the standpoint of like showing up for my kids, I'm a more patient mom, I'm able to have like conversations with my kids and my partner, like I'm not just needing to leave and excuse myself because I'm like so overwhelmed capacity wise that I like can't have a conversation with you. It allows me to be more present, I think, as a parent and then, wider than just you know, parenthood for myself. It gives me the capacity, the time to spend on other things that I really care about, both both professional pursuits and you know, and personal pursuits as well, and it feels more aligned, like more right within myself than like I am getting to like make the decisions about what's right for me instead of feeling like I just have to go along with with the expectations of of people around me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I'm glad you brought up that. Yes, it's give your more. You're more patient as a parent, you're probably more present and you also get to do professional things that you want to do, because we, as moms, still get to make the choice to do something for ourselves. It isn't just all about our children.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this podcast is an example of that. Right Like, because I don't have a schedule absolutely bursting, I get to do something that I really enjoy, which is having a conversation with you about this topic, among other things. That's why I have the capacity to be able to teach, that's why I have the capacity to be able to train, and I've been lucky that some of those other things have turned into like streams of income for for me as well over time, but it didn't necessarily start out that way but just having the capacity to be able to do, do things. And then, outside of work, I really enjoy traveling and gardening and yoga.
Speaker 2:And I have been able to like make decisions, like conscious, intentional decisions. Not always easy to follow through with decisions. It's been very hard as a person who would rather like, make you know, make people happy first, but I have been able to integrate those things in my life so that I also prioritize, you know, making myself happy self happy, yeah, and how has that shifted since, like, becoming a mom?
Speaker 1:Did you notice any shifts? Like were? I mean, yes, our priorities are usually different before we have kids, but how did motherhood shift this idea of okay, I, I, I need to change something. I need to become accepting of the journey I'm currently on versus how life was before kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I'm not going to swear here, but kids, everything up right, You're welcome to swear you, you think you think you know, you think you have some idea of preparation for, for motherhood.
Speaker 2:Like I'm the researcher, I do all the things. I like trained parents for years before coming up a parent myself. Like in like to happen One. I just realized this is hard and and there is no way that I'm going to be able to show up for my job at the time in the way that I did before. I worked all the time I I didn't have great boundaries and immediately, you know, when my, when my son was born, we had a lot of challenges. I had a perinatal anxiety disorder. That was really hard. We had breastfeeding issues.
Speaker 2:So if a new baby isn't already taking up a lot of your time like then when they're, you know, when things don't go as smoothly as you would have liked, it takes up even more of your time and even more of, like, your mental capacity. And so immediately, one of the two things that happened was I was like what I did before is no longer going to work. I'm like I'm going to have to have different boundaries around this, like I care about my son more than I care about my work. Yes, I need to have a job and I want to go back to work, but it just can't look the way that it did before and everybody's just going to have to be okay with that.
Speaker 2:And there was part of me that was saying that, right. And then there was another part of me over here, like I, am I good enough to do this? Like, what are people going to think if I hold these boundaries? Like, like, can I do this? So there was the need to hold boundaries, and then there was a lot of the, a lot of the guilt and concern and and all of that that that I think plagues many parents as they're getting started. Am I doing this right? Am I messing up my kid? Am I? You know, do other people have this figured out? And I just don't. You know all of those different things. And I found that my need for boundaries was also just really driving this self-critical piece. And I had to do my own work in therapy and as I did that, I was like, oh, what if? Like there is a part of myself that thinks if I'm hard on myself, that will make me hold better boundaries. But that actually is not okay.
Speaker 2:Like being hard on it being hard on myself isn't imagine that like not helping me.
Speaker 2:And so I I went through this slow process of learning to be more kind to myself, being being open to like being called out on being kind to myself, giving myself a break around, setting those boundaries.
Speaker 2:And eventually, you know, I would utilize things like if you've ever heard, like don't say that to my friend, right? Like if I would catch myself saying something like, oh, like this is a moment where I'm just like not a good enough mom. Well, I wouldn't say that to my best friend. So why am I talking to myself that way? And so it was like a slow and painful and tedious process of shifting my language and paying attention to how I was talking to myself, and paying attention to that part of myself that was worried about the boundaries but wasn't necessarily helping me in a useful way. And then, slowly but surely and I won't say that it's like just fixed and perfect forever, but definitely those moments are far less today where I like criticize myself for holding a boundary or for not showing up or for making a mistake as a parent right, Like it happens.
Speaker 1:But it's gotten a lot better over time and that has actually, I think then helped me to set better boundaries, because then I don't have the guilt around setting yeah, yeah, and I yeah, that's a really great point, because what I've seen is so many people are trying to set boundaries but they don't have that foundation of compassion, self-compassion to allow them to be able to set and hold these boundaries. So criticizing themselves or beating themselves up about not being able to set the boundaries is getting in the way, like you just described.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's so hard because I really think that that part of ourselves, it is trying to help, like it is, it is worried about our well being, it wants the boundaries to be set and it's like only tool is is criticism and and so being able to like give that part of ourselves something else to do or to like be able to like reframe that from like what if it isn't the criticism that like makes the changes? What if it's the holding yourself with compassion and celebrating, like the times that you do like hold the boundaries, the times that you do like distance yourself from that guilt and choose compassion? Like what if, instead of like judging the lack of boundaries, we celebrated each time that you chose to have compassion with yourself and set a boundary?
Speaker 2:I have found that that's a much greater motivator but, it's not the first instinct for me, or it wasn't at the time time I would say that's a bit different now.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably true. For many of us, that's not our first instinct. I had recently seen well, not recently, it's been a while, I guess, but I don't know if you've seen that. I guess it. I don't know if it's a meme. Are memes only funny? Well, anyways. So this, this image that I saw are means the one that they're funny, can, is a meme also something that, like, I'm wondering, like, what's the definition of a meme? Anyways, it doesn't matter. So I had seen this image on Instagram and you've probably seen him. It's a man and he does quotes with balloons, the their balloons and their letters. So he writes the quote in these balloon letters, and one of them was if, if, beating yourself up, if, like, if beating yourself up or self-criticism worked for you, it would have already happened. Yeah, yeah, because that's usually the first thing is we're criticizing ourselves, we're beating ourself up, and obviously it's not working if we're feeling so bad.
Speaker 2:So yeah and if and if then also nothing is still changing. Like if we're, if we're just feeling bad and also there's no change, then like, what evidence do we have that that method is working for us, and could it be that a kinder approach will yield us a better outcome? Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you had mentioned that you struggled with anxiety disorder. Can you talk a little bit more about that? I know that's one struggling with because early on there can be some anxiety in motherhood but, how does one differentiate from this is a little bit normal versus this is something I really should get help with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay Y'all. So I'm a therapist, have been for a minute, was a social worker before, have done a ton of work with moms who are pregnant, who are having babies, who are postpartum, like a long time. I got pregnant in 2018, had my son in 2019. And I at that time, like being trained at the master's level I did not have advanced training on perinatal perinatal like mental health and presentation and I just didn't know what. I didn't know. I had my first symptom of a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder at five weeks post post conception. Like I didn't even know yet that I was pregnant when I had my first symptom and it was one of the scariest things of my life. Like I just randomly had suicidal ideation and I was like I don't know what's happening. Like things are fine in my life, like why am I feeling this way? And then, like that, I was like do I need to go to the doctor? Do I need to call my? Like what is happening here? And then I found out that I was pregnant. Like that that same week is when I actually found out that I was pregnant got into the doctor. They gave me the PHQ-9, which is the patient health questionnaire. It's nine questions that help to screen for perinatal depression and anxiety. And if you are pregnant, I, I hope that you're, I hope that your doctor has screened you for this at some point. But that was my. I took that and then the doctor was like you, doing okay, and gave me a pamphlet on perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. And that is when I found out that it's not just postpartum. I just heard postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety and I thought this only happens, like I naively thought this only happens after, after you have the baby. And then I see in this pamphlet that like no, it can happen at any point, from the time you get pregnant, like technically, the perinatal period is to a year postpartum. I have different feelings about that because you don't stop being, you know, you don't stop being a parent, who's who's had a child even after that. But that was my first experience with that, and so just a couple of facts one in five birthing people will be diagnosed with a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder and one in 10 partners. So partners, even though they are not the birthing person, can also be diagnosed with a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder during gestation, or you know, or after the fact, you know, or after the fact. And so I that went away like that.
Speaker 2:One instance of those scary thoughts went away pretty quickly as I moved through my first trimester and then it was like anxiety. I was anxious about everything. I was, I was researching everything, like to the point that like it just didn't need to be researched, and and then I was just like really struggling with a lot of these tough thoughts. And so it calmed down second and third trimester and then I had my son and we had all these breastfeeding issues and I ran right back up, right Like I was like worried about what he was, how he was weighing, what he was eating and all of that good stuff. And I actually waited an extended period of time before I got help. I got onto medication before I started back into therapy because I had I had stopped therapy in my first trimester because I was so at that time virtual therapy wasn't as popular because that was like pre-COVID, right and so, and so I had like stopped therapy because I was so nauseous driving that like driving to my appointments was not, it was not getting, it was like miserable.
Speaker 2:I couldn't do it, so I got on. After he was born, I got on medication and then I started therapy a bit later and and so much shifted for me. In doing that, like everything went back to normal. Well, not, I mean, you have a baby right, so like it's a new normal, but in terms of my mental health, like it's a new normal, but in terms of my mental health, I was not having the same symptoms that I was before, and that is that journey is what got me kicked off on. Like I'm a therapist, like I have a master's degree and a license with years of experience and I had no idea. I had no idea what this was like for pregnant people. And so I got trained by Postpartum Support International in perinatal mental health and advanced psychotherapy for perinatal stuff, and I got trained in brain spotting through a perinatal lens. But in terms of, yeah, so that's my story In terms of what felt different or how someone may know that something is off in the first couple of weeks postpartum, like things are just hard in general.
Speaker 2:So if you haven't had any symptoms of like increased depressed or sad feelings or anxiety or like thoughts that are just like pinging off your brain, if you haven't had that prior to having your baby. In the first couple of weeks things can be just rough as hormones are shooting through the roof. If your breastfeeding, like so many things are getting back to normal. So in the first couple of weeks it's typical to have like what we call baby blues. The majority of people do. But that's not the same as like anxiety and depression If it's if you are having increased, you know, persistent sadness, excessive worry, really like a difficulty sleeping, a lot of like anger or irritability, lack of interest or pleasure in doing things. If you feel disconnected from yourself, if the guilt and the worthlessness is like really heavy and that is happening even before you have had your baby, that could be a good indicator that you might want to talk to somebody, you might want to tell your doctor.
Speaker 1:That could be a good indicator that you might want to talk to somebody.
Speaker 2:You might want to tell your doctor, you might want to tell your therapist if, if you have had those symptoms, if you haven't had those symptoms and you have your baby, first couple of weeks are a little bit rough. You have some of that, but then it continues beyond that two-week period, or in that two week period it is like so intense that it scares you in some way or is like just feels off. Trust your trust, your intuition. Talk to someone about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would even go as far as saying if you're questioning, should I get help?
Speaker 2:The answer is probably yes, yeah, just do Cause. What's it going to hurt If you reach out and find out oh, this was just a really tough two week period. Well, at least you got some support in that time. If you don't need ongoing support, then then fine. But if you're thinking should I maybe get some help? Or if you're having the, I think also if you're questioning like how do people do this? And like how do they do this, how do they get by? Feeling this way, that's another indicator to me. Even if you haven't entertained, should I get help? If you're like other, I don't know, I don't know how Talk to somebody.
Speaker 1:And I'm so glad you brought that up, because I was just about to say and this is the time where we can get caught in that comparison trap in so many women do this all of the time. I can, I just need to tough it out. No, go get some help, go get some support, because, if anything, enough as it is, why continue to like, press on?
Speaker 2:in in immense difficulty with, with no support, you know like what. How does that serve us? You know, kind of back to back to how we want to show up right Like what do I, what do I need right now. It can be such a backseat when you're like so focused on keeping this life in front of you, you know appeased. But in taking care of our like, if we can remember, in taking care of ourselves, like we are, we then have better capacity to like show up for our child. And I don't think that that's the way, the sole reason why we should do it. I think think on a level like, there is power in just like showing up for you because you deserve it.
Speaker 2:But if your only motivator in those early days is is for the good of your baby, if that's what's going to get you like through the doors of a therapist, if you need one like, use whatever motivation you need to get there. You know, Absolutely, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And if someone is looking for a therapist, what are things specifically for this topic that we're discussing? What are some things that they should be aware of or watch out for? I'm definitely someone of the proponent of if you're struggling in motherhood, your therapist should be a mom too, because, like you had said earlier, you really cannot wrap your mind around this journey until you're in it. So I'm a huge advocate for if you're struggling with things in motherhood, go to a therapist who's also a mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, or a therapist who's had some level of like experience in what you are doing? Right, I think it's fine to ask those questions Do you have experience with fertility? Do you have experience with loss? Do you have experience with postpartum mood and anxiety disorders? What's your training like?
Speaker 2:And people who are niched in this area, who specialize in this area they're going to talk about that like on their psychology today, on their website, in terms of a really tangible resource postpartum support international. If you just Google postpartum support international directory, they have a directory of professionals who have put themselves into this directory because perinatal mood and anxiety disorders are their niche. So I would maybe start there. But if you haven't started there, if you're like looking on psychology today or you're Googling or you know whatever, ask those questions about what experience do you have with perinatal patients?
Speaker 2:What experience do you have with perinatal mood and anxiety disorders? What training do you have for those things? Like, can you, can you relate to me around, like the balance of children, or fertility, or you know, or whatever it may be you deserve and it is so important to have a really good fit for a therapist and so asking those initial questions, even just via email, even if you don't do like a. An initial consultation if you need to save yourself time and energy, like asking those questions will save you time and help you to get with somebody who is specialized in this area.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. Thank you so much, ashley, for joining us today. If someone is in your area and they're thinking I really want to work with Ashley or I really want to get connected with her, what's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I am. I am licensed and see clients in in the state of Indiana, ohio and California, so those three States. I see people virtually in Indianapolis, if you happen to be listening, and in Indianapolis I will do limited in-home sessions for postpartum and for perinatal loss and then, when the weather is nice here in town I'll do some walk and talk therapy as well. But if you want to find me, you can do that at elevatetherapylccom and if you, I think at this point, if you Google, like Ashley Fields, elevate Indianapolis, like my psychology today, will pop up too. So you can reach me at my website.
Speaker 2:You can schedule a free consultation at my website. You can email me at ashley at elevate therapy LLCcom. I because my capacity is lower and I and I don't see a ton of people, that usually means that my turnaround time on responding back to people is is pretty quick. But, yeah, you can schedule something. You can email me and ask questions and even if you aren't, you know someone seeking out therapy in one of my states. If you have a question about perinatal mental health or need to get connected to someone in your area, I'm happy to like send you some links around that too.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and we'll get all of that hooked up on the show notes, so if you're driving, don't feel like you had to write all that down. It'll be there in the show notes, and thank you so much again, ashley, for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much, kayla, it's been a pleasure.