The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast

Episode 34: Empowerment in Parenting: A Conversation on Support Systems and Personal Growth with Special Guest Jessica Sorensen, LCSW

• Kayla Nettleton • Episode 34

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Struggling to find that sweet spot between being a mom and maintaining your sense of self? Jessica Sorensen, a seasoned reproductive and perinatal therapist, joins us to unravel the complexities of motherhood, guiding us through the notions of harmony and flow that outrank the impractical ideal of perfect balance. As we share our personal narratives, we shine a light on how integrating self-care as a daily ritual, rather than another box to check off, can profoundly empower and rejuvenate us. Jessica's wisdom teaches us to gracefully dance through the evolving stages of parenthood and to rid ourselves of the guilt that often shadows our self-care efforts.

The journey of motherhood is fraught with societal pressures and expectations that can drown out our inner needs. This episode is a heart-to-heart conversation about the transformative power of accepting help and leaning into community support. I've been there—overwhelmed by the compulsion to always say 'yes' and undervalue my own well-being in the process. Together with Jessica, we confront these challenges, underscoring how our self-worth is not tethered to our independence but rather bolstered by the support systems we embrace and the boundaries we set.

Feeding our children often becomes a battleground of self-esteem and identity for many moms. In today's exchange, I open up about the highs and lows of my own feeding journey, while Jessica provides a compassionate perspective on every mother's unique experience. We emphasize the victory inherent in each feeding choice and the significance of celebrating those successes, regardless of societal norms. Our dialogue culminates in the acknowledgment that motherhood is a landscape of adaptability and triumph, and we're here to remind you that you're not alone in this extraordinary odyssey. So let's link arms, share our stories, and navigate these waters together with grace and understanding.

Helpful Links:

Website: Bloom Well Therapy | Fertility to Parenthood Through Perinatal

Social Media Handles:
IG: @holisticperinataltherapist


About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.

In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life


Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance

Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com

TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back everybody to the Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance podcast. My name is Kayla Nettleton, your host. Our guest today is Jessica Sorensen. She is a reproductive and perinatal therapist located in Roseville, california, and she serves any California residents with virtual therapy. Jessica is passionate about serving parents in their stages to and through parenthood. From her own personal and professional experiences, she has a holistic approach to looking at both the mind and the body. Welcome, jessica. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I'm so excited to have you. I mean, we chatted it a little bit before hitting the record button and I am just so grateful that you've given us the time to be here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah it's well. It's such an honor to be asked by you and just chatting, even before recording. It's so fun to connect with other you know like-minded therapists and be in this space it really is.

Speaker 1:

And so, starting off with the first question that I ask every guest what is your definition of a balanced life?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I really, you know, think about balance as this idea of equal parts, balance as this idea of equal parts, and sometimes that can be hard, right In motherhood, to find things that feel equal, and so I try to lean in to this idea of harmony and instead finding a flow of where different aspects of our life complement each other.

Speaker 2:

So, you know, more so when we're in motherhood, priorities change, right, and the mom that I was freshly in postpartum is a different mom than who I am now with my five-year-old little boy. And so, recognizing that that harmony can flow as our priorities change, as we really lean into being flexible, and I think that our harmony and our balance can really strengthen when we think about self-care as a routine, not a task. And so, you know, oftentimes we can struggle to find whether it's balance or harmony of like, where am I going to get this time to myself to really lean into this? And self-care oftentimes can feel like this big, heavy task that we need to accomplish, but rather it needs to be these small things. That is just part of our routine, and the more that we're flexible with that, the more we lean into that we can create that flow and that feeling of harmony with each stage that we're going through.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, thank you I love that Especially the part where we're talking about flow and things that complement each other, because oftentimes I think a lot of people think of balance and like the scales, like you said, all of the parts being equal, but the reality in parenthood that's not necessarily the balance that you're going to get.

Speaker 1:

There's always going to be a some something in your life that isn't getting all of the attention that you may want to be giving it, and that's okay.

Speaker 1:

But what's helpful is being aware of those and finding the harmony so that you're choosing to give less attention in that aspect, whether that's you know work or friendships, or you know your relationship, you know, or the amount of time you spend with your kid all of those things. You want it to be a choice that you're making, and I know that saying that it's like what do you mean? Spend less time with my kids? Like that's the choice I'm making, that that might be a choice you're making if you're wanting to make specific moves in your career, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with you for making that choice. You're not a bad mom or a bad parent for choosing that and as I'm saying this out loud, I'm like, ah, but dads and men don't always wrestle with that, because they're making the choice too. But going back is when you get to decide that for yourself, instead of letting life decide for you. You're going to feel more empowered.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think it takes time and building that confidence of knowing that you can intentionally fill up your cup first and then whatever's left over is what you're giving back to write your family. And there's such a notion that we have to always put our kids first, which, yes, as moms, right, we're always wanting to take care of our babies, but we can't always take care of them if we're not taking care of ourselves first. Right, and just like you mentioned, if we're in a season of life where we really need to focus on building our career or maybe taking care of our minds and body, whatever that might be leaning into that and really pushing away from that notion of guilt or whatever else might come up, that's making us feel bad for putting ourselves first at times and seasons change, right, just like that idea of harmony, being flexible. Maybe there's a season where we are having to give a lot to our family or our little ones, but knowing that you need to come back to what you need to, right, we can't just continue to run on nothing.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And looking at it too is, whatever you decide in that specific season or moment or time doesn't have to follow you forever.

Speaker 1:

These are just moments in time that we're choosing to prioritize one thing over the other and oftentimes, if we just so, using the example of, like giving yourself time, like as mom, as the mom, putting yourself as the priority, that can can be a time of exploration for you to figure out okay, what is it exactly that I need so that I can show up the best for my family too? And if you give yourself time to think about that and work through that and do the work in that whether that's on your own or with a therapist that's not going to be for the rest of your life necessarily. Where you're giving this specific amount of time as the priority, you're going to figure things out that work for you, that are going to fill your cup, that are going to help you to feel the way that you want to feel in this journey. But if you're not giving yourself that time, then you might be struggling throughout as you're trying to give what you don't actually have for yourself.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Right. And if you're running out of time and you know you are continuously putting yourself to the side, what does that lead to? And it can lead to those feelings of burnout, irritability, right, depression, anxiety, if you want to go to that. You know spectrum of emotions and so it is like so important that we do create this harmony for ourselves and know that we are important, so that we can be more present with our little ones and feel like the best version of the mom that we want to be.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what have you found when working, because this is a struggle for many moms in getting past this, this guilt or not feeling like they even have enough time to devote to themselves, like what. What have you seen has been helpful for you or for your clients when they're wrestling with these things?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so oftentimes what I see is, when women are wrestling with these things and I too have wrestled with that it is usually rooted in feelings of mom guilt, struggles with asking for help, really figuring out where they want to establish boundaries, if maybe they're just feeling really overwhelmed.

Speaker 2:

And the more that we recognize what that is rooted in, the more we can make those positive changes to implement what we actually need. And so you know, if you're thinking of that idea of not asking for help or feeling guilty, what is that rooted in? Well, typically for so many of us, it comes from societal pressures, maybe personal pressures that you may have been raised in within your family, you know, and understanding that so many of us feel that way and where it's rooted from, the societal pressure can really help us feel less alone. And it also brings about that idea of self-compassion, right, and knowing that we can give ourselves that same kindness as we would our friend. Would we want to see our friend never taking the time for ourselves and struggling, right? That's true, yeah, like no, we wouldn't want to do that. We would want them to feel supported. So why are we feeling like we have to do everything on our own?

Speaker 1:

I love that you frame it that way, because I know every person who is listening to this. They're looking for something that's going to help them and I know that. If they saw a friend, just because I know that the audience that is here if they saw a friend struggling the way they were, they would likely do something about it.

Speaker 1:

They would likely do something about it. They would likely try and lend a hand, whether or not that friend is going to take it. But they're not the people who are just going to sit back and watch their friends or other family members struggle. They're going to want to like help them in some way, like flip that for us. You know, if my friend was looking, you know was doing the exact things that I was doing and not seeking any help or not doing you know something, how would I intervene?

Speaker 2:

so when you can answer that it's like okay, this is what I need to do for myself, because I don't want that for my friends or family member right, and I often say this is like a common theme that you know, self-care activity, whatever it might be, but we're constantly saying yes to what people need. And I think that when we start pausing and saying, okay, am I, am I saying no to myself? And saying, okay, am I, am I saying no to myself? Well, then maybe I need to pause and like rethink what my answer is. Why. Why am I saying no to what I need? And if we go, you know, into that idea of postpartum stages a lot of that time it can be that example of, hey, can I come over and see baby? Well, are you saying yes because you want support or are you saying yes because you feel pressured for visitors, right? So really leaning into taking care of ourselves and saying yes to what we need.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, absolutely. And that, too, brought up what I had mentioned earlier. Like, sometimes we think we don't have the time to do things for ourself, yet we're saying yes to all of these other things that we don't have the time to do either. So why are we, like you said, why are we saying yes to these outside things and no to ourselves?

Speaker 2:

and no to ourselves. Absolutely Right. We are so busy, yet we're fitting in time, for oftentimes it's other people's needs. And again it goes back to that societal pressure of you know what moms are balancing, that they need to do it all. Are we a good enough mom if we're not taking on all these extra tasks? And it's that idea of independence right that we need to be doing all of these things on our own. And that is just so false, right? We are not meant to do any of this on our own.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's actually something that I've struggled with throughout and still, sometimes it creeps up a little bit, because sometimes these things, when we think about healing, we think like, well, if I'm healed, this should never come up again.

Speaker 1:

But it's more like if you're, when you're healed, you'll be able to notice it before it really like is in getting in the way and you're going to be able to move through it quicker. And so I was raised. I remember my mom always saying this like I want you to not have to rely on anyone, like I want you to be able to take care of yourself and not have to rely on a man. And so I, you know I was very independent. I know how to do a lot of things for myself, but when it comes to raising a family, raising children, that sure I could probably do it by myself, and I know many women do who are single moms but I have support and I wasn't using that support because I was still stuck in that mentality that I I need to be able to do everything on my own.

Speaker 1:

And I know that is not what my mom meant, but that's just how it it came about. Like I'm still like. Have this in the back of my mind I am, you know. Maybe I'm not a good enough mom If I can't do all of these things on my own. When that is that is not true. I'm still a very good mom. My worth does not come from what I'm doing as a mom or what I'm producing in any area of my life, but so often that is what we're looking at.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I can really relate to this as, growing up as a girl, it was very relayed to me how important it was right to go to college and have a career and have stability, really gaining that independence. And so I thought when I was pregnant that I needed to be able to do it all and I needed to be able to hold my career and be, you know, a partner and a wife and also be able to take care of my baby. And I needed to do it all on my own, even though I have great support, support that wants to help me, support that wants to help me. But I thought at that time that my worth as a mom is how I balance it all and how I accomplish all of these things. And so you know.

Speaker 2:

But then it fuels that pressure we feel and that like what we so often see, even on the lens of like social media right, trying to have it all together and this idea of perfectionism. And I can truthfully say in my postpartum experience that was rough because I didn't think about those things right when I was pregnant. I was thinking about baby, what did he need? What was that going to look like? How exciting it is. I did think often about like my birth plan and what those wishes were, but I never thought about my postpartum experience and that I would need help, that I can't do it on my own. And that quickly shifted for me when I got into postpartum and something I had to internally battle with and give myself that self-compassion because you know, just like you mentioned that idea that we need to be able to do it all and that's just not the case and it took for me.

Speaker 1:

It took a long time to even be able to just accept help when it was given, because I didn't. I knew the people who were offering help. I knew they really meant it, but there was still a piece or a part of me that didn't want to say yes. Because what would that mean for me to say yes to help? What would that mean that I couldn't do it all myself and that I did need to rely on someone for support in this specific time?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Right. And for so many of us, we can have these common, you know, negative cognitions that come up that we may not even realize we're thinking. So it's like, oh, if I don't accomplish all these things as a mom, am I, I'm not good enough, right? Or like it's defining your worth as a mother. And I remember specifically being just like a week in postpartum and I would have family say, hey, I'm going to come over and help. They would be on their way and I would be running around the house, vacuuming, cleaning, like changing my son's outfit right, like getting everything together, even though I was running on just a few hours of sleep. I had a rough recovery, right. But it's that pressure to oh, I need to do all of this, I need to show that I'm good enough. I need to show that I'm a good enough mom.

Speaker 2:

And what happens is right these like negative thoughts that we have, or this pressure we put on ourselves. It fuels that fire. This pressure we put on ourselves, it fuels that fire. And then we're stepping away from really taking care of ourselves, whether that's recovering, whether that's self care, going back to creating that balance or harmony. And I think that we have so much work to do around this for moms, and I do see changes happening. But we know that support is one of the biggest protective factors for women. Right and postpartum is not just a few weeks of an experience. This can last years. So changing that idea of this is going to be, you know, years in the making of really giving yourself that compassion to ask for help. There's just so many layers to this.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that was actually one of the things that you had posted about that specific thing, that postpartum isn't just like the weeks or even the few months after giving birth, it's years. And that was one of the things that I had seen. I was like, oh yes, I need to have her on because she gets it. And yes, because this whole period it's such a huge transition, constant transition from from baby stage to toddler stage, to preschool, to elementary age. That whole period is still after birth and that's what postpartum means.

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh, I love that and I love that it resonated with you because it's it's not talked about enough. I think so commonly you go to your postpartum checkup. They say you're good, we'll see you in a year. You know whatever it might be, and you think, oh, I'm going back to work in a few months, I'm done right with the stage. I'm like no, that is not the case and there's so much research behind it.

Speaker 1:

The recovery, the mental load, everything we're balancing takes years to get behind and it takes time it really does, especially if, if you're like going on a breastfeeding journey, if you're doing that, it's like even long. It can feel even longer because when so I um, I breastfed all of my children, I was very fortunate to be able to do that, because I know some women do struggle with that and.

Speaker 1:

I do not take it lightly that I have been able to um, I was able to breastfeed all of my children and still nursing the youngest one, and to be able to do that it takes a lot of support because it is very draining. Yes, you save a ton of money, so you don't have to buy formula and spend and spend money in that area, but it is costly in the, the energy department for sure, but at there your body is.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't get back to not normal, but it doesn't level out, that's a better word, it doesn't level out until, like, you, stopped breastfeeding and so, like I am my, my youngest right, and so I'm still breastfeeding, I I'm still not back at my leveled state of of where my body, you know, maybe should be postpartum right, but it's because it's all takes a while to to get to the place that it wants to be.

Speaker 1:

I'm really absolutely trying to not use the like, back to normal because your body changes everything about your body, not just your physical body, but internally there's lots of changes that happen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's so many changes and it's a common thing that I talk to women about is, you know, breastfeeding, bottle feeding, pumping, right, and I can so relate. I was a mom who breastfed my son and I mean, just to be transparent, right, I went through struggles and I still put that pressure on myself of like, nope, you're nursing, you're doing this power through, and I did, but at what cost? Right, because emotionally it was a battle. I was pumping, I was nursing, I was getting a little sleep because I was having trouble with, like latch and all of those things. But as women, we do put so much pressure on ourselves of, you know, nursing, breastfeeding, pumping. Then the transition for women who choose to formula feed.

Speaker 2:

I see such rooted like self-esteem, confidence. You know concerns around this feeding issue. You know concerns around this feeding issue and it takes so much time to give ourselves permission of saying like bed is best and whatever you're needing in this journey. And if, right, I can agree with you with breastfeeding, it takes time for our bodies to recover. We're burning a huge amount of calories when we're nursing. Our bodies are going through so much change, um, and then you can like go into that you know topic of body image and the pressure we doing for ourselves when we're giving so much and just even recognizing the wins of whatever journey you go on in feeding your baby, that is the best thing for your baby and it's the best thing for you. And to really de-stigmatize this pressure that so many women feel around this. I mean I see moms who are like just pumping at all hours of the night because of this, like pressure they feel for what you know, because of this, like pressure they feel for what you know they're getting told from society.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, yes, and I. What's coming up for me, too, that we're like talking about this out loud, is the women. It's what I've noticed, and then this is also me too the women who really struggle with these pieces, not specifically like breastfeeding, but like having to like having to breastfeed, like wanting to breastfeed, wanting to do the natural birth, wanting to do all of these things that would like quote unquote make you like mom of the year because you did all of these things. Yeah, I, what's coming to me is, like the high achieving women who they have. They were probably the a students or they were probably like a top of something, and they're, they're, they want to do everything the best, and so when our bodies are not doing something in the way we want it to, when our bodies are not, doing something in the way we want it to.

Speaker 2:

It's like a hit against who I am as a person, absolutely yeah, I, and I can relate right, and I'm very transparent even with clients of like, hey, I get it.

Speaker 2:

You know, when you are this high performing woman and you really define your worth on all of your accomplishing, that pressure is on in motherhood and it can take time to let go of. Like your worth is not defined by what you thought this was going to look like. Parenting is challenging and we can think what we want it to look like really all we want but at the end of the day, like it's going to change, we're going to be constantly pivoting and we can just, like myself, right, plan what we hope our birth can look like, plan what we hope our feeding journey can look like, and that's great. But if it doesn't look that way, we still accomplished a lot. We gave birth to our baby. We, you know, went through this venture of feeding them and that is huge. At the end of the day, you know you loving and caring for your baby is a win, and all the extra stuff, it's just extra, and we put so much pressure on ourselves that if we don't accomplish those things, well then we're failing as a mom.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and you're not. You're not Right, you're not no and you're not. You're not right, you're not, it's no. I really like that. You use the word pivot and it's like we we need to give ourselves and other moms the permission to pivot, because when we give ourselves the permission to do that, when we give ourselves the permission to pivot, we just allow ourselves to figure out a different way, instead of fighting with ourselves or with our time and with our energy to make something that isn't best for us work.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Right and we could go and touch like on feeding, for instance, with that right. You and I both both were very fortunate to breastfeed. But let's say it's, you know, a woman's goal to breastfeed, and that's really like they just are dreaming about it. They're so excited for it. Then it happens and it's not a great experience. Maybe there's latching issues, maybe there's pain, and it is really hard to separate the worth from that.

Speaker 2:

But knowing, just like you said, like like you are doing everything right, you are accomplishing everything as a mom, and the fact that you're worried or you care, that speaks volumes of how great of a mom you are. You will be very constantly pivoting and going through changes and sometimes things are not going to look the way that we expect them to, but that's when we have to push back on. I am going to ask for help, I am going to ask for support. Who is a person that I feel safe with talking about these struggles? Because we're not alone, right? One in five women experience perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. And if they're not experiencing a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder, we also know that women just experience mom guilt and maybe they're struggling with boundaries with family, I mean it can venture into so many different things and, at the end of the day, really, what I'm saying is there's so many layers to motherhood, right, how can we?

Speaker 1:

get it?

Speaker 2:

How can we be perfect at it when there's so many things we're going to face?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, and you, you mentioned boundaries. Well, speaking of boundaries I wanted to bring this topic up because we kind of discussed about it before we hit the record button is what is really helpful for women going through this journey moms going through this journey is being able to have a support system or a safe space to talk openly about their experience. But sometimes maybe moms will hold back because they're unsure if the other person that they, that they know of, experienced something similar is open or not to talk about it.

Speaker 1:

And the reason I bring up boundaries is because it's it's a boundary thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I I think this comes up a lot of knowing who can I talk to when I'm struggling, who can I feel safe with? And unfortunately for some moms, maybe they do reach out and they say, hey, I'm having a hard time and they get the response of, well, at least your baby's healthy, okay, especially for someone who maybe experienced birth trauma, right or grief or, you know, struggles during pregnancy. So when they get those dismissive comments, oftentimes it's like, well, I don't have a safe person, I don't want to reach out again, feel vulnerable and then get approached with an at least statement. And so it is finding a person you feel safe with or, like you mentioned, if it is a person who you know may relate to your situation you're not sure if they're comfortable it's okay to ask at an appropriate time. Hey, this is something I'm going through, is this something you feel comfortable talking to me about and leaving it open, right, so that both parties feel safe to talk about it. And oftentimes they do. And it creates like a village of support. And what I see oftentimes, especially in groups of moms, is, once one person shares, especially in groups of moms, is, once one person shares, hey, I'm having a really hard day, or this is what I experienced Then everybody else is like me too, right, yeah, and it's so, you know, warming as a therapist to see other women relate and kind of join together. And I just share that because I think it's important to know that if you have a person in your life and you think that they would probably be a great person to talk to, but you haven't yet reach out because they probably would love to talk to you, sometimes people don't bring it up because they don't know how and they're, you know, worried. They have the same worries that you do. Yes, right, creating those like healthy boundaries and relationships and knowing it's okay to reach out and talk about things if you feel ready.

Speaker 2:

And then, on the flip side, you know, I tell moms often like, if you've experienced trauma, loss, you know, if things feel heavy, you should never feel pressured to talk about it, especially to people who don't feel safe. And let's find that safe person, let's find that safe support. And it's out there. And you know it's unfortunate too. There's so many moms that don't have support. So it's unfortunate too, there's so many moms that don't have support. You know, I was really fortunate, even, I would say, privileged in the sense of having such a great support system. But for moms who are out there that are really struggling to find a network, there are things out there. There's support groups, mom groups, sometimes locally, and sometimes we do have to push outside of our comfort zone. But we will find that person right and that is so healing in itself.

Speaker 1:

It really is. And sometimes, when people aren't quite ready to talk about a specific topic quite ready to talk about a specific topic even them knowing that you're willing and able to have that conversation can be helpful for them. So when they are ready and being able to take a no or hear like, oh, I'm not ready to talk about yet that, yet, as that's the other person, it's not necessarily something against you can be helpful yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think that's really helpful for, like, the other person to know, right. So if you're like a family member or friend who has somebody that you're close to in postpartum, it's okay to say, hey, you know I'm here whenever you need to talk, please reach out to me. But, like, if they say they're not ready, that's okay. It's also okay to reach out to them again. Maybe it's a few weeks later. Hey, how are you doing? I just wanted to check in on you. Can I bring you a coffee right?

Speaker 2:

And giving really tangible things to help with, because oftentimes if you say, hey, I'm here, let me know if you need something, that mom is typically not going to just reach out and say, hey, I actually do need a meal. Can you bring me lunch Right? So to that family member, to that support person, know it's okay to be that constant and, even if they don't want to talk about it, saying, hey, I'm here checking in on you, let me bring you something, let me hold the baby while you're taking a nap, really giving tangible things that are going to support them rather than just like a blanket statement.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's really great, just like a blanket statement. Yes, that's really great. Something to to remember for those of you, I mean, because even sometimes, like we forget that as moms, that is something that we probably would have liked, and we can get so caught up in all like the busyness of life after you know from becoming a mom that we may forget to reach out to our other mom friends who may be in a earlier or a different stage. So that's always a good reminder.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know moms who, even if you're in pregnancy checking in right that can be challenging women who are going through infertility, if they're open about their story and you know they're experiencing it, checking in on them right. So any stage of motherhood, even if you have, right, a toddler or a five year old, every stage has its challenges. And knowing that somebody can check in on you and say, hey, I'm here, that somebody can check in on you and say, hey, I'm here, let's talk, right, or let's go grab a coffee, whatever it might be, it really can be so healing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it really can. Well, thank you, Jessica, for giving us your time. And if someone is listening here and they're thinking, oh, I would really like to connect with Jessica, or maybe even work with you, what is the best way to get in contact with you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I am very active on my Instagram, which is at holistic perinatal therapist, but you can also find me at bloomwelltherapycom. I have a monthly newsletter where I share tips around wellness from any stage fertility, pregnancy, postpartum and beyond and you can also schedule one on one therapy sessions with me. If you don't live in that in the state of California, but if you do, I am accepting new clients I would be happy to offer a free introductory call and see if it would be a good fit. So you can reach out on any of those platforms and I'm always, always around.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, and thanks again, jessica, and I hope you have a good rest of your day thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

It was so fun talking to you and I appreciate you taking the time.