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The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Is it really possible to find balance as a mom? Each week, I'll be bringing you inspiring chats, interviews, and dialogues all based around helping moms like you unlock their potential and lead the balanced life they want. If you enjoy listening to topics that help you lead a more balanced life, then you've come to the right place. I'm obsessed with helping moms lead the life they want without the guilt.
With the right information and support, you can find balance in motherhood without sacrificing your needs.
The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Episode 33: Balancing Motherhood and Self-Care: The Quest for Compassionate Productivity with Special Guest Lisa Zawrotny
As a mother, have you ever felt like your well-being is constantly being pushed to the back burner? That's what productivity and accountability coach, Lisa Zawrotny, and I unpack in a heartfelt discussion about the juggle of motherhood, self-care, and carving out a sense of balance amidst chaos. Lisa's candid storytelling of her experience as a caregiver to her mother with Alzheimer's, while managing her own family life, offers an intimate understanding of the delicate dance between caring for others and for ourselves.
This episode shatters the myths of productivity, advocating for compassionate productivity over the relentless hustle culture. We dissect cultural norms and societal expectations that have led women to overextend themselves, and how prioritizing tasks through the Pareto principle can result in a more efficient and personally satisfying life. It's about finding harmony among our needs, wants, and values, rather than measuring our worth by our level of busyness.
We wrap up with practical advice on decluttering both our physical spaces and our mental load, highlighting the symbiotic relationship between emotional well-being and productivity. Through a guided mind sweep technique, Lisa offers listeners a tool to clear the mental clutter, paving the way for a reorganized life that reflects personal values and goals. Tune in for this transformative conversation, and find a treasure trove of resources linked in the show notes, from Lisa's Positively Living podcast to her engaging Instagram feed, all designed to help you navigate the roadmap to a balanced life.
Helpful Links
Website: https://positivelyproductive.com/
Social Media Handles
https://facebook.com/positivelyproductive
https://Instagram.com/positively_lisa
https://linkedin.com/in/positivelyproductive
https://positivelyliving.buzzsprout.com/
https://www.pinterest.com/positivelyproductive
Freebie:
Guided Audio Mindsweep https://positivelyproductive.com/sweep
About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.
In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life
Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance
Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com
TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance podcast. Today's guest is Lisa Zaratne. She is a productivity and accountability coach, founder of Positively Productive Systems and host of the Positively Living podcast. She helps multitasking creatives and caregivers reduce overwhelm and boost productivity without burning out or sacrificing what they love. When she's not sharing how to simplify and stress less, you'll find her hanging out with her husband and kiddos, traveling, watching movies and acting like a rock star, or hiding from the world with a iced coffee and a good book, probably trapped under a cat. Lisa has current certifications in time and stress management, life coaching and positive psychology. She's helped hundreds of clients do less, live more and breathe easier. Welcome, lisa. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Kayla. I'm so looking forward to this conversation.
Speaker 1:Me too. So, before we get started, what is your definition of a balanced life?
Speaker 2:I'm so excited for this question because I've listened to your podcast and I'm a bit like Megan in episode 25. I love using the word harmony, so I challenged myself to create an official definition, and here it is. For me, the definition of a balanced life is harmony within and among my needs, wants and values. It's a flow between my identities and my demands, where I can serve those whom I love, including myself.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. Wow, I got chills. Yeah, I love it and I one of the parts that I love that you highlighted is you're talking about your needs, and what I have seen and found is that a lot of the times when us, as moms and women, are trying to create a balanced life, we're thinking about everybody else's needs and trying to balance everyone else's needs, and we're usually thinking about ourselves last, like, okay, well, I have to do all of these things.
Speaker 1:How can I fit myself in those little tiny spaces that I may or may not find?
Speaker 2:It's so true. It's like, where do we fit in? And then then, when things really go off the rails, we start talking about self-care and we're like, oh yeah, you know, um, and I've learned. I've learned because I was a caregiver and I did let it go so far that I practically lost myself that I'm like, no, this is not how it works.
Speaker 2:People say what would you do differently? I was a caregiver for my mom. She had Alzheimer's and I cared for her while my kids were littles, like I was pregnant. So at one point I had an infant, a toddler, and I was caring for my mom and it was so much and it took so much out of me. And when people say, what would you do differently, at first it was, oh, could I have been more patient, could I've done this? You know this is what would you do differently. At first it was, oh, could I have been more patient, could I have done this? You know this is what we moms do, right, because we want to serve, we want to nurture. It's just ingrained in us. But I realized the thing I would do differently is take care of me better, and so that's.
Speaker 2:I'm a caregiver advocate. Now, If you are caring for others, I'm going to be the one saying how are you doing? What do you need?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes it even just takes someone else asking us that question, because oftentimes the question that people are being asked is are you okay? Right, are you okay? And what's coming up for me right now is my dad passed away in early 2021, and so if people ask me if I'm okay, what would come to my mind is like no, I'm not okay.
Speaker 1:Why are you even asking me that question? No, I'm not okay. But then I felt this like well, I probably should say okay, because they don't really want to hear what's going on for me right now. And so I think, like that that question is really not loaded but it for me. It would kind of gloss over everything else, because if you have to ask that question, the person you're asking is probably not okay.
Speaker 2:That's such a good point and may I say I'm so sorry for your loss. I I've lost both my parents and it's a deep loss that we need to acknowledge, and I spend a lot of time it sounds odd as a productivity coach talking about our traumas and our grief and all of the things that make us human. And you're right, we're so quick to be like I'm fine, Everything's fine. It makes me think of that meme with the dog in the hat sitting at the table and there's like fire everywhere. It's like I'm fine, this is fine, Everything's fine.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not and and I think we think that most people don't want to hear it, and I guess in general, like if you're in the grocery store and someone's like how are you? You don't want to be like, so I'm grieving heavily today.
Speaker 2:I get that, yeah, I can promise you when you have a chat with me, I do want to know and write how you ask a question can really change how you answer that question and how you know that you are, you know, being offered to answer that question. If I say what do you need today, you might be like I need to talk about my dad and how I'm feeling and how I miss him yeah. Or you might be like I need an iced coffee. Oh wait, that's just me.
Speaker 1:But whatever it is right there. Iced coffee.
Speaker 2:Right, there you go, or maybe both. How about an iced coffee and we talk about you know?
Speaker 1:loss and how it affects us and the good and the bad and all of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. Asking a question and then asking that of yourself Taking the time. Walk away today and do me a favor and ask yourself what do I need today?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I have this planner that I use, and one of the daily questions that it asks is what do I really want to do today? How can I honor this, even in just the slightest way?
Speaker 2:how can I honor this even in just the slightest way? Yes, that that's pretty much like the the magic sweet spot of what I do as a productivity coach that brings in, you know, simplicity and small steps. It's like you can honor and not only the needs. We talked a lot about needs right now, but I did mention wants, because we get both of those right. We get to want things too. We're more than just moms, you know, we're more than just caregivers, and so there are things that we want, but and sometimes it's like I feel like there's this real overlap, because the things that we desire, that we're passionate about, I have seen firsthand in myself and my clients make a difference in our energy and how we show up. When you get to do those things you love right, You're a better mom for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, you are. You are Because those things that you absolutely love doing give you energy more than it takes away yes, it's energy giving exactly yes, and so, since we're on this topic of energy, yeah, why does energy management matter more than time management?
Speaker 2:so there's nothing wrong with this idea of time management. We have a certain amount of time. What do we do with it? Right, we're managing our time, but the thing is is that the way we manage what we're doing with the time is managing ourselves. You know that's. This is where you start getting into classic productivity concepts of like. We manage our distractions. We're clear on what it is that we need to do. We have a to-do list. We have the tools that we need to do. We have a to-do list, we have the tools that we need to do the things.
Speaker 2:But the energy side of it is you can have everything in place, all the systems, everything ready to go, and you can just have one of those days where you are hurting, you are sad, you want to burn everything down, you know like or you're, or you're just you're exhausted because you didn't sleep well, you're not going to have the same productivity levels, okay, another fun example I'm sure you've seen it with your kids is you know, there's a task that they don't want to do. Most likely I'm going to go ahead and be a psychic and guess that it's cleaning up toys or cleaning up the room. Right, yes, and you say hey, at least I've said this to my kids. Hey, you can play with your friends once your room is clean. Oh, my goodness, you cleaned it already. And I like, breathed once and you're done. Yeah, they were motivated.
Speaker 2:That's energy management, that's. You know. There you can get, as such, a different amount done in the same amount of time, depending upon the kind of energy you bring to it, how much rest, whether you've had the right snacks, you know, like, if you've been fed properly, if you're motivated and excited, if there's a reward at the end, if you know, you know that you'll feel so much better. You know all of these things. You can see how they contribute. And if you've done something you love, like when I I love music, that's a big thing for me, so I can prime my productivity by playing some music or actually playing like instruments or just listening to some really good classic rock, right, and then I get like energized and then go for it and I show up differently.
Speaker 1:That's to me, that's energy management and why it matters more right, yes, yes, and I often advocate for a three minute dance party because it's just like what you said. Advocate for a three minute dance party because it's just like what you said, if you just because oftentimes it's like the just starting starting is usually the hardest part because you're going from zero to you know however much energy it takes to get up and start doing so.
Speaker 1:If you just start with something fun, like put on your favorite song or your favorite two songs, three songs, however many. I would keep it to like two or three, though, right, because? Because we want to lead this into doing something that's going to also benefit you in another way in your, in your, your business, your work, whatever it is you need to do for your home. But I love doing like a three minute dance party just to get me going and letting all those like feel good hormones come out. So I am, I am there with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. And then you talk about energy. Anytime we can, you know, get the dopamine hits, that's what we're searching for. That's going to change how we take action as well. So all of it contributes in such a positive way. And, by the same token, we need to understand that when we don't have the energy, we not only get to, but I encourage you to lighten up on yourself in terms of the demands you're making.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, yes, this actually happened to me yesterday. I usually go to the gym in the evening after after I'm done, but because of all of the this holiday stuff, the kids were out of school Friday and Monday, so it was an extra long weekend same and then.
Speaker 1:so yesterday was basically like the start of our week, but the workout that I do on Tuesday is different from what I do on Monday and it just I just did. I felt off, I went in there and I tried and I gave myself like 30 minutes. I was in there.
Speaker 1:I'm like nope there is no reason for me to continue. I might just like hurt myself if I continue doing this. But it took paying attention to that and being aware of what I needed for myself at that time. I did try and do the workout and it felt good for a little bit and then I realized I'm just going to make push myself too hard. It's okay for me to stop right now. It's been an off week. It's okay to you know. Start back again the next day. I love that that phrase.
Speaker 2:It's okay to, because we don back again the next day. I love that that phrase. It's okay too, because we don't want to let up on ourselves and we do have these expectations and demands. I love that self-awareness that you had.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that's so important from a safety standpoint, especially when we're doing something like working out. We need to listen to our bodies, but I but I encourage us to do that all the time like sometimes I can be like I'm going to sit down and do something you know, work on my business and I'm like, no, I am exhausted right now, and that's where you end up reading the same paragraph five times and getting nowhere and that's not productive anyhow. So why not change how you're using that time? I'm pro nap, I am pro just sitting quietly, even if you can't nap or sleep, but just, you know, maybe a little meditation or simple breathing, just something that says it's okay to not do the thing that you felt like you had to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that Because you're giving yourself the time to signal safety for yourself, because what I've seen is a lot of moms, a lot of moms who work, women in general whenever they are trying to get themselves to do some type of't, it feels uncomfortable for them or things like oh, I should be doing this or I should be doing that. So, giving yourself that small amount of space to just take some breaths, stop for a moment, slow down, signaling safety to your body, to your nervous system, and then saying you know what? It's okay for me to do this. This isn't what I'm used to doing, but this is okay for me to slow down, and I might even be more productive because I've given myself the opportunity to slow down.
Speaker 2:I will pretty much guarantee that, and I love the phrase signaling safety, because that that we need safety to to function at our best. So I can pretty much guarantee you that by taking that time, you will be more productive when you return to the thing. And one of the things that I've, I would say, seen the most. I've and I'm not immune to any of this. I've experienced it all personally and I see it with my clients, and especially as mamas, where we say, okay, our value equals what we're doing. Right, we try to say our productivity and our value equate and that means action.
Speaker 2:But that becomes what I call a busy trap. Yeah, we're just constantly doing and we're not understanding that not doing can be just as productive or primer productivity for something else. That being more selective is the the best way to show up quality versus quantity, that by just being who we are, we are worthy and valuable, and it's not equating to the action. If I can do anything with the platform that I have, whether I'm having a conversation with you here or on my podcast, is to eradicate this whole mom's epitaph where it's like she gave everything she had to us and left nothing. No, how about she modeled for me what it's like. She gave everything she had to us and left nothing. No, how about she modeled for me what it's like to have really good boundaries and self care and also fully give out of love and nurture me where I needed it? How about that? I'd rather have that.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, or I learned how to do all of these things because my mom showed me how. I watched her do these things for herself and it made it okay for me to do the same.
Speaker 2:Exactly when you think about what you want for others whom you love. You don't want them to think that their only value is in everything that they do for others and to never say no. You don't want them to think that by not caring for themselves that they're somehow showing up better for others. You don't get a medal because of a higher level of difficulty. I wish, but you know not happening. So yes, so instead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go ahead, so instead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instead, think about you are valuable by who you are, not what you're doing.
Speaker 1:And then be selective and intentional. Oh yeah, absolutely, and I think part of that too is it's interesting that you said, like you don't get a medal because you don't. But what I've noticed is many of the moms who are overdoing things what is that word that people are using? Over-functioning? Right, we're over-functioning. Trying to check all of these boxes were women who did really well in school. They were the high achievers, they got A's, they probably went to college. Some of these women and you were given grades, medals, you know for that achievement. But when you come into like motherhood or like this real world, outside of academics, outside of even from like, even outside of like corporate settings because even in corporate settings there's still some of somewhat of that level of you are sometimes given things, promotions, raises for your productivity, but when you come outside of that, there's no longer those accolades, there's no longer that award, but you're still functioning at that same level and it's trying to. How can you detach from those?
Speaker 2:It's a really good point, and so I think somewhere in there there's a great deal of praise that we receive like, oh, this is a good thing you're doing. When you describe that, you're also making me think of the challenges that women have in the workplace in terms of OK, so we have, you know the the difference in pay, right, ok, but we half the skills necessary and they'll go for the job and women will have 100% and not be sure if they should apply. We over over prepare, if you will, and I see that you know across all aspects of life in terms of so that over functioning, I think we see it everywhere.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I think if that study that you're referring to, or whatever it was, I think it's even lower than that. I want to say like men will it's like 20% or something.
Speaker 2:It's something low yeah really, oh, my gosh yeah.
Speaker 1:I knew it was just like 75 to 80%. It's something yes, it was something ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah and so like if you don't have.
Speaker 1:If you don't have like one of those qualifications or experience and like this random thing that maybe you would only experience in that job, then a woman will likely not apply for it. But men like like they can have maybe even just one experience after the whole thing and be like, oh yeah, I'm qualified for this job, no problem.
Speaker 2:Right, and so, along those lines, we do this in motherhood, where I'm sure you've asked the question am I good enough? It's the good enough question. So the one thing I want to encourage you today is to think that the minute you ask that question, yeah, the answer is yes. It means you care and you're showing up and you are doing your very best.
Speaker 2:You are more than good enough. You're amazing, but we ask that question of ourselves, and so the answer tends to be the doing, doing, doing. And so from my perspective as a productivity coach, it's like how about we be more selective and intentional? I like using those words because when you think about that, you're like ooh. Selective and intentional means we're not just trying to do all the things, we're not just trying to be busy. We're not saying that we have to do lots in order for it to matter.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite tips is using the idea of love languages when we serve our children and understanding that there's a certain way that each of our children will really feel our love. And then there's other ways where we might make all this effort and it won't matter. And I can think of like you know making, like big dinners, you know big meals and lots of effort, and they're like they would have been happy with popcorn and a pizza and just sitting on the couch with you and you're like oh, oops, over-functioned there over, just overdid it a little. It's like wasting the energy instead of focusing on the effect wasting the energy instead of focusing on the effect.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, I love that. And so we've been talking a lot about productivity and I know one of the things you had mentioned was like different ways of looking at productivity. So what? What does it actually mean to be productive and how do we get it wrong?
Speaker 2:So the idea of productive and the idea of busy, I think, tend to be conflated, right, and it goes back to that taking action and doing the things. And so productivity is really about the effect and the result. And I think where we got off track is we have the industrial revolution and we had, you know, things that we wanted to create. We call them the widgets, right, you know, pick something that they're trying to create in a factory. How can we make more in the same amount of time? That was the focus.
Speaker 2:But now we are in an information age, we are in an age where we value things differently. So now we have to look at productivity as how do we create an efficiency, if you will, lets us live this full and balanced life? How do we? And so that's why compassionate productivity and positive psychology as part of that, that's why I I focus on that and I bring it up because that's the idea, that's the science of human flourishing, right? And so it's wellbeing, it's optimal functioning.
Speaker 2:So now you start oh, productivity, optimizing got it. How do we function our best? But why? What's the reason behind it? To be satisfied, to be content, and that's something that we can all do. I think we get trapped in the hustle culture, which is a lifestyle that teaches that, over functioning, the overworking, that that's how you you are valued, that's how you earn respect. And I'm like nope, let's, let's flip the script and look at the person first and the uniqueness of the person and and so that to me, that's that's true productivity, when you're compassionately looking at the person and the life and you are being efficient so that you can have that best quality life, not quantity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what first came to my mind when you said this about and what first came to my mind when you said this about oftentimes, like the lines blurred between productivity and busy, and they're not the same, because someone can have been busy doing things all day, yet not productive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it makes me think of the Pareto principle where, like 20% of it's something, it's 80-20. And so yeah, be happy to 80% of your outcome comes from 20% of your output.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, and I actually it's funny I just did a couple of solo episodes on my podcast about both of these things the distinction between being productive and busy, and also the Pareto principle. So this is the idea that when you look at everything you have to do and this is a great takeaway for that to-do list or like that you know the list that you've. You've created this list because you have these expectations right of what you need to do that you will get 80 of your results from 20 of that list. And I love to use the example of what we wear like 80 of the time is only about 20 of our closet, and when we have, um, you know, clients or customers, 80 of our income comes from only 20 of those clients or customers.
Speaker 2:The same thing with volunteers. When you have a group of volunteers, about 80 of the work is being done by 20. Sometimes it's 70, 30 or 90, 10, but the whole idea is it's a leveraging ratio that where you can say I don't have that much energy. I want to do things you know for me too, but I have things that I want to do as a mom, I have things that I you know, that I consider to be responsibilities and demands. How do I effectively, you know, if I get 80 of the way there on those things, by only 20, those things, by only 20% of the actions taken, you start to say, oh, that means that there's bigger dominoes on my list.
Speaker 2:What are they? Let's focus on those, and then that still leaves time for the fun stuff. It leaves time for me, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. And what's coming to mind right now, when you said there's bigger dominoes, and I'm I'm thinking about this in terms of what can I do? What can I take off my list? That's going to give me more energy, because this often comes up a lot in terms of the the clutter and the messiness in the house and how there's not enough time in the day to keep your home immaculate on your own, like there. There just isn't enough time and oftentimes, when you're trying to keep your home tidy and clean to this certain level that it really just can't be with certain age children, because they come behind you and throw things around or spill everything out Instead of like okay, well, that means I have to clean the entire house for me to feel okay, feel well enough to like do other things, it's okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe you don't have to clean your entire home. Maybe there is a specific place in your home that you want to keep at this level of cleanliness and tidiness that is going to. You can just go in there and like, rest and get that energy. Whatever it is that you're trying to do, whatever it is that you're trying to achieve, you can get it from that small place and that is just your place to get your energy back, but that is so different than trying to keep your entire home at that certain level.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that and it's actually something I do recommend to clients is talking about that special. You talk about a safe space. Right, it's literally a safe space. It's your space and it's a reminder too, and we all get to have spaces, like if your kids have a space for for toys or you know, it depends, of course, if you're living in a one-bedroom flat, that's going to be different than you know, multi-bedroom farmhouse in the country, but again, on a sliding scale.
Speaker 2:Everyone has their sort of dedicated spaces. You have the family space, the living room, you have purpose for each of the spaces and that's a a very simple way to start in terms of figuring out what belongs and then ultimately decluttering, and that goes for your entire life, your calendar, your to-do list. That's what I do with whole life decluttering. But even talking about the physical space which is so important to how we function, having a space that's all yours, and it can be realistically the corner of a room where it's like there's a special chair and a bookshelf, and you know, I'm just envisioning for myself now but you know, like just some, an area where it's like that's moms and we don't touch that and we respect each other's spaces.
Speaker 2:The other thing that came up for me when you were describing this was sometimes it's managing our own expectations. You said a very it's a very true statement that when you have littles, there are certain ages, there's certain seasons of your life where messy is kind of the norm. Managing what you I want to use the word allow in a way, you know that it's. It's a good idea if you can, if you can release that expectation that it has to be pristine now for some it might still be that a lot of mess is anxiety inducing.
Speaker 2:So you have to judge yourself. Is this an expectation I have because I think it's supposed to be, because Pinterest and magazines have taught me, because what will the neighbors think? That's one thing versus I can't function and I can't be productive when it's messy. You have to know yourself like what your sliding scale is, what your clutter threshold is. Then, from there to your point, um, the 80, 20 rule can be like I feel better if what's the you know, um what's the 20% of my home that, if it's neat and tidy, it feels it feels bigger. And I would say for me, my bedroom and the kitchen.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So and it's different for everyone, so you can you can find your 80, 20 in there, or you can find a space that's just yours where you get to keep it pristine, or you can find simpler ways. You can allow yourself to be like well, um, actually we can have this enormous basket in the living room and all the toys can be piled up in it, and then they're not on the floor. That makes me feel better. Yeah, good enough, it's that what's the good level? That makes you breathe easier.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that and for us, our what's the 20% out of the 80% of our home, or the hundred percent right Is us is our living room and kitchen, those, if those are clean, it makes a huge difference in how we feel. I don't even care Like the kids have a playroom it's. I think it's supposed to be like a formal dining room, but we don't. We don't need there.
Speaker 1:So we turned it into a playroom because that made more sense for us, so I do not care what it looks like in there, because I have these other spaces that feel so good to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I use this as an example on my 80, 20 episode, where in the kitchen, for example, it's a you can even 80, even 80, 20, when it comes to getting a space to a point that makes you feel better. It's so funny how, when you clear counters, you know just clear and wipe down counters and close drawers and cabinets. Yes, what a difference that makes, for you know, it's like find the horizontal surfaces and clean them and close doors and cabinets and you're like, oh, this is much better, you know you can still have dishes in the sink.
Speaker 2:You can still. You know there can still be things happening, but it feels a lot better. So again, you kind of find your threshold and you make that work for you.
Speaker 1:And it takes less time to do that than it would to just completely clean and organize your kitchen. Exactly but you still get 80% of the results right, oh, absolutely, you had noted whole life decluttering what do you? Mean by that?
Speaker 2:So we talked about decluttering the space. We talked about like 80 20, we talked about what you have in your space depending upon the season of your life, and I touched a little bit on this idea of what belongs, and I love your example of using a dining room that you're like yeah, we're not doing that formal dining thing, so let's use it for a different purpose. Well, all of these principles and I did this originally as a professional organizer. I would help people with their physical spaces. I realized how much this applies to all the spaces in our life. So when we think about decluttering, we think about clutter, and I love peter walsh's quote that it's anything that gets in between you and the life you want to be living. So right, you get to choose what's the life you want to be living? What's blocking you? Now translate that to stuff in your space. If you, like you said, if the kitchen is messy, if the living room is messy, that's not the life you want to be living. It makes you edgy, you're anxious. It doesn't let you function, or or, or celebrate, or be hospitable in the life you want to be living. It makes you edgy, you're anxious. It doesn't let you function, or or or celebrate, or be hospitable in the way you want. That's a block, so you clean it up. Now apply it to what's on your schedule, like how much are you cramming into your schedule day to day? What's on that to-do list? All the spaces of your life? Where's the clutter there?
Speaker 2:Um, and that also includes the thoughts we have, our mindset. It includes those expectations we have. Like, I have to have a pristine home, do you? Yeah, let's talk this out. I mean maybe, but but also let's ask the question. But also let's ask the question is it actually true or is it something that's been, you know, an idea that's been implanted by someone else? So many times? We have obligations and expectations that come from someone else. Make sure they belong to you. Truly, that's whole life decluttering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ooh, I love that. Make sure they belong to you, because there are so many beliefs that we hold on to that are not actually ours and we haven't given ourselves the opportunity or even the permission to question those. So true, yeah. And how do you help your clients go through this whole life decluttering? Is that something that you help them do?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, definitely, and I will even do actual, like you know, physical decluttering. We'll do virtual decluttering. I've had clients pick up their phone and walk around their space with me and you know, like, I have a client that I regularly meet with. So we're on an accountability plan where we check in and I help her just process her life and, like you know, she's also dealing with a custody, um, you know, challenge. So it's, it's uh, you know, have one week with her daughter and then without, and so what are we doing? Which days? And then sometimes it'll be like my fridge is insane and I can't function.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's walk over to the fridge and talk about you. You know what you're doing and we'll work through things. So, yeah, I will do all manner of decluttering with my clients, and here's why it's such a simple concept, but it's such a truth and I hope you take it with you. Is that it's so much easier to organize less? Oh, yes, it, just you. Is that it's so much easier to organize less? Oh, yes, it just. You know it sounds so silly, but it's so true.
Speaker 2:So it's like if you're dealing with too much, then that's where the overwhelm comes from. You have too much and you're like I don't know where to put it, it doesn't fit. And again, you see how that applies to a drawer you're cramming full or your schedule. You know it. It applies to everything, and so we will start together by understanding. You know your personality, your tendencies, your values are huge, and that's why I mentioned values in the beginning.
Speaker 2:For the balanced life for me is what do I value? I value showing up for my kids and being very present. I have teens and they're rather independent in many respects, but they also have really different needs from me and I'm there to help them, kind of like usher them into adulthood right now and letting them be a little bit more independent, but then be there to help them navigate when something goes wrong. I'm there to pick them up from school every day. Now some people would say, well, that's not necessary. Great, then that's not a value to you. But it's a value to me, cause let me tell you, I get all the really good gossip in the car ride on my home.
Speaker 2:So I'm just saying it's a great time to get Intel, but that's a value to me, so I get to honor that right. Um, this is we figure that out, I. So I understand, um, when you're my client, I understand how you tick what matters to you and then we use and your personality and your strengths right and we use those as your filters for what belongs in your life and what doesn't. That's the decluttering. And then once we have that cleared out and we figure out where you're going, what your goals are, then we can start applying the traditional productivity. I think that so many times people think productivity and they think the preda principle or the eisenhower matrix and urgent versus important, and planners and to-do lists, and it's like, yes, we'll get there, but not until we create that foundation that's unique to you.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm, oh, that's awesome, yes, and so so needed, because too often people start with those things that you just listed off with the tools these, these, these people, these women, these moms.
Speaker 1:They know that they need and want because they haven't had the time or space or even permission to stop and think about what they want for themselves, what do they value, what, what beliefs do they need? A question, and push back on. And so until those things are, and push back on, and so until those things are excavated, you know, and brought to the surface those other things that like, just do. This is not usually going to work.
Speaker 2:You want to eradicate that word, just just and should. Can we stop with that? You know, because it's so dismissive. And again, when you come back to this idea of person first, this is why I actually love working with clients who also work with therapists and who also are digging deep. You know, it's because we have beautiful overlap. It's being trauma-informed, it's understanding that there are going to be aspects of your life that you'd like to pretend you want to compartmentalize and tuck that over there. No, it's all connected. It's going to affect everything you do and the more that we embrace it and we create, you know, we allow the threads to connect and overlap. And then it goes back to the word I used in the beginning harmony.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes and I love that you bring that up that it's good for clients to work with you and maybe have worked with a therapist in the past or are working with a therapist, because that actually came to my mind when you were talking about how sometimes maybe your anxiety is too high for a certain standard that might be more beneficial for you. Standard that is might be more beneficial for you. And so I thought, oh, that's probably someone who would benefit from going to therapy and working with a therapist because there is something there. It's. It's common for clutter to affect us in a certain way, but usually there's something there that is triggering that anxiety response to happen. Aside from the clutter itself, there's something else underneath there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And I mean I've actually talked with potential clients and, you know, guided them to say, you know they come to me with this, I'm not being productive, there's something wrong with me and I am so ready to just can we release the shame and the guilt? That's not, that is not the thing, let's let that go. But essentially it's like I want to be more productive, there's something not working. So they come to me and there have been occasions where I'm like I really think that therapy is the first step.
Speaker 2:Now sometimes it can be an overlapping step or, you know, a parallel step and sometimes it's dig in first because there's some, there's some healing that you want to do before you. It's like when you work out and you want to strength train, you don't do it on an injury, you heal first. Now, a lot of what I do with my clients, I believe, is being able to find that progress while healing. You know while, because part of healing is just being compassionate to the fact that you know you have a certain pain in an area or a certain weakness or whatever you want to call it, but that sometimes it, you know it can be at a level where it's like work on that healing first and then we'll talk, because you may find that your perception of how, then we'll talk, because you may find that your perception of how productive you are shifts once you heal.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, and one of the things that you have graciously gifted our audience is this guided audio. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, I'd love to.
Speaker 2:So I originally started with some workbooks for my clients that I started giving out for free and I actually have that on my website, on my resources page, so anybody can request them. And one of them was, you know, core values workbook. So again we talked about values. And another one was a joy list, which is kind of an energy management and self-care guide. It's just it's really asking that question, like you said, hey, what's what do I love? What lights me up? And the third one I called the focus file because I love alliteration and it was this idea of doing what you might call a brain dump or a mind sweep, and it's loosely based on David Allen's getting things done. His idea of the mind sweep is what has your attention? It's decluttering your mind because so often and moms and mental load this is huge. So so many of my clients are like I got to do the mind sweep today. So I do have a workbook that guides you through that. But I realized we are so on the go. We're in the car half the time.
Speaker 2:You know, we're doing things. Yes, I need to do a guided one where you don't need anything special, just literally something to take notes with and a chance to listen in five minutes and I'll walk you through a guided mind sweep so you can get the clutter out of the head and someplace safe, and then we'll worry about processing later. So that's what the guided audio is oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is so awesome and so needed, and I would highly recommend everyone listening here to go and grab that, because you probably don't realize how much you're holding on to and how much all of that thing in your mind is weighing on you. So when you go through this and you actually like release some of that stuff for yourself, I guarantee you're going to feel so much lighter, or you're going to feel somewhat lighter. You're going to feel lighter in some sense. So go and grab that. And Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. If someone is thinking like I really want to work with Lisa, I really want to like get in her space, what is the best way for people to get connected with you?
Speaker 2:So you're listening to an awesome podcast right here and you could hop over to Positively Living. I'd be honored if you'd join me there. But all of the links to all the things, from the podcast to coaching, to these free resources you can find at PositivelyProductivecom. And if you like to play on Instagram and have some fun I'm a little ridiculous over there you can definitely see the coffee and the cats and the music and and the jokes and all the things. Humor is one of my core values, not surprisingly, but we have fun over on Instagram and that's positively underscore. Lisa, Any of those places I would love to see you say hi and I look forward to hearing from you.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and we will definitely link all of that up in the show notes, so don't worry about writing that down. But thank you again, lisa. This was a wonderful conversation. I had an awesome time with you.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, Kayla, it was truly my pleasure.