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The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Is it really possible to find balance as a mom? Each week, I'll be bringing you inspiring chats, interviews, and dialogues all based around helping moms like you unlock their potential and lead the balanced life they want. If you enjoy listening to topics that help you lead a more balanced life, then you've come to the right place. I'm obsessed with helping moms lead the life they want without the guilt.
With the right information and support, you can find balance in motherhood without sacrificing your needs.
The Modern Moms Roadmap to Balance Podcast
Episode 21: Crafting a Compassionate Approach to Personal Finance and Wellness With Special Guest Nicole Stanley
When Nicole Stanley, the visionary behind Arise Financial Coaching, opens up about her transformation from financial despair to freedom, you can't help but lean in. Her story isn't just remarkable; it's a testament to the power of aligning money management with personal values, a truth many of us overlook. Journey with us as Nicole peels back the layers of her life, revealing the pivotal role women play as the unsung financial backbone of their families and how, particularly in motherhood, they craft a balance not by dividing hours, but by investing them in what truly resonates with their hearts.
Nicole's candid conversation extends beyond budgets and spreadsheets to a place where mental health and financial well-being are deeply intertwined. She bravely shares her battles with postpartum depression and underscores the importance of acknowledging when it's time to ask for help. This episode is a clarion call to anyone who's ever felt guilty about spending on self-care. It's an affirmation that investing in your mental health isn't an indulgence, but a critical step towards a life where financial empowerment replaces stress with stability and joy.
Concluding our session with Nicole, we shatter the misconceptions that often cloud the path to financial transformation. With wisdom and practical strategies, she demonstrates how financial coaching can be an empowering force, guiding us towards a life where money is a tool for fulfillment, not a source of anxiety. Whether you're wrestling with debt, looking to grow your wealth, or simply aiming for a healthier relationship with your finances, Nicole's message is a beacon of hope, illuminating the way to a happier, more compassionate financial future.
Helpful Links:
Website: https://www.arise.financial/
Social Media Handles
IG: @arise.financial.coaching
FB: Arise Financial Coaching
Book Noted in this episode:
Happy Money by Ken Honda
About the Podcast Host
Kayla Nettleton is a licensed therapist based in TX, business owner, mom of 3 kids and coach for therapists who want support and guidance in their journey in creating an aligned business model so that they can live the freedom based life they've always dreamed of without sacrificing their own needs.
In her private practice as a therapist Kayla specialize in helping women overcome anxiety, perfectionism and people pleasing tendencies so that they can lead a more fulfilled and authentically aligned life
Find Kayla on IG
@kaylanettleton_lcsw
@themodernmomsroadmaptobalance
Email: kayla@kaylanettleton.com
TX Residents can Schedule a Free 20 minute therapy consultation here.
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Hello everyone, welcome back. Today. Our guest is Nicole Stanley. She is the founder and head coach at Arise Financial Coaching. After battling crippling financial anxiety in her early twenties, nicole went from $30,000 in debt to building her family of fives net worth to over a quarter million dollars at age 27. That growth was about much more than the numbers in the bank. It was about the joy, confidence and freedom it brought. Nicole has since helped over 500 clients across the globe simplify the way they manage their money and hit their financial goals with ease. Thank you so much, nicole, for being here.
Speaker 2:Kayla, I am so excited to be here, so thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course Money is such a big topic and, like I had said before we hit the record button, I don't think it's talked about enough, and especially in, like, the motherhood space. You know, whenever you listen to other podcasts or at least I haven't run into any podcasts where they're talking specifically about money in a genre that's specific for motherhood- yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to talk about it because I know that for most moms, or a lot of women, we actually are the budgeters or, like the CFOs of our family, other women, we feel like our husbands do that and we feel out of the picture. So I feel like both those audiences will be able to find something valuable from our conversation because, I mean, money affects us as moms more than almost anything else.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I completely agree. But before we dive into that, I wanted to ask you the question I asked everybody what is your definition of balance?
Speaker 2:So I was thinking about this and I actually feel that balance has nothing to do with how much time you spend in a certain area. I think people feel that balance is about like, oh equal, this equal. That I actually think that a balanced life for a mom is a life where she's spending it in accordance with her values. So if her values as a woman or a mom or a friend or daughter or a wife or a or a wife are heavily into, let's say, her social life, right, then a life of balance for her would include a lot of social things. If she didn't have that social component of her life, then it would feel out of balance. Even if you looked at her time and you said, oh well, you spend two hours here, you spend two hours there, it all works out really well.
Speaker 2:I think women feel out of balance when we're not living in accordance to our values. So for me, that's what a balanced life feels like is my value may be my family, my value may be impact in my work, but I also have a value in joy or friendship or a levity in life, and so if I feel like my life is too serious, I feel out of balance, I have no time to just laugh with friends or make jokes or watch a comedy or a comedian. That's an area of my life that I wasn't able to identify for a long time was out of balance, but it's because, oh, this is a value of mine and it's not showing up in my life. Yeah, that's how I would define a balanced life for me personally, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:And so true, I think a lot of the times we are so focused on those three things like mental health, social life, health, family, those big areas and we're not so focused on the values or the things that matter most to us, because we're too focused on those main topics that are talked about. So I'm glad that you brought up values, because it's so important and it even comes up in our money stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think too that sometimes, when we don't think about it, we're not focused on our values. We think about our life in terms of values, but we think about it in terms of things that we check into. It's like we forget about all the different ways that we can check into those areas of our life. So a woman maybe have the value of being a mother, but maybe the way that she's currently acting as a mother isn't in accordance with her values. That makes sense. Yeah, I'll give an example in my own life Don't value is over scheduled kids.
Speaker 2:I don't value that in my life because it makes me feel just out of whack and just too busy, too overwhelmed. It really brings this energy into my life that I don't like. So that would be an area that you could say on paper oh, I'm living with my family, that's my value, right? You sometimes have to go deeper into. Well, what is it within that value, within your motherhood, within your career, within your marriage? It's not just something you check into, but something that, even in those little pockets, are you living in accordance with the things that you value in life? So that, I think, is an area of my life that I used to think, oh, if I just spend time with my husband, therefore, I'm investing in my marriage where it's like well, sometimes, right, you have to think a little bit further than that. You know, 80 times a year is in. It's not just about time together, it's how you spend the time together.
Speaker 2:And that's my little soapbox on the check-ins.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, oh gosh, the check-ins. It is more than that. We can't just expect to be able to pop up next to our spouses and count that as quality time. When there's so much more, either one of you is going to feel like that's not enough, because it usually isn't to just sit down next to each other or just do the mini check-ins. But although those do add value, there's other things. There's other ways to connect that might be more fulfilling for both, or one or the other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I was looking at your website and it would I love it. It's beautiful Wow thanks. And you speak about your story. Can you talk more about your story and how you came to creating your business? I mean, even in just your description, you were in $30,000 in debt and then you were able to save so much in such a short amount of time. You were 27. Yeah, and it was what you said a quarter of a million.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm messing up the numbers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, okay, I would love to. I know that my motherhood was actually like a huge catalyst in me deciding that I was going to prioritize my finances, and I think for a lot of women we experience a similar thing, where suddenly maybe our careers were enough in the past for just our needs, but then you add a kid to the mix and a few kids and suddenly you have to make more intentional decisions because there's just more important people all in the same pot. So my story with money, as most, starts as a kid. I grew up, luckily, in the upper middle class. However, even though my parents made really good money, it seemed as though that didn't translate to their stress at home. So most of my memories as a kid were around my parents fighting about money and even though we seemed on paper like we were doing well off, it seemed like our lifestyle was always three steps ahead of whatever you know. Wherever my parents were comfortable.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to share that like specifically, but my dad put a lot of pressure on me about income as a kid because he was a software engineer, and I remember there was a few wake up calls for me. The first was when I was a senior in high school and he told me that all the money for college had been spent. And I remember being really flabbergasted at the time because, you know, my dad was successful. He was a software engineer for Microsoft in the early 2000s right, I knew he had been planning for this. So that was one of my first moments where I thought to myself oh, it's not always just about how much money you make, it's also about how much money you keep right.
Speaker 2:The second wake up was when, shortly after 2008,. We had lost my childhood home and that was a really big change in my life and watching my parents go through that and I didn't realize it till I got married and started having children. But I actually really internalized that anxiety about money. And I see that with my clients a lot too, that we don't always reflect on how our parents' financial stories affect us. But you know, psychologists have done studies and found that our money mindset is decided by the age of seven.
Speaker 2:So very early time to be influenced, and so most of us are really just repeating whatever our parents heard, and most of them are just repeating what their parents heard, and so on and so forth, oh yeah, so I didn't realize how much it affected me until I got married. My husband and I were lower-ish income or medium to low. He worked in church work and then I worked a sales job to help pay off debt. But I had this great husband who basically my financial stress was was coming in like a freight truck into our early marriage. I can remember being on my lunch breaks fighting with him about you know, how are we gonna get out of this debt? And I hate working this sales job and I'm just doing it so we can pay off our student loans, and just so much bitterness. I remember on the way to my wedding, we had a financial inconvenience and I was stressed about that for my entire wedding.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's what happens when financial anxiety is really in the driver's seat of your life. At least, that was my experience and what I see with. You know the people that I work with, but it really does touch everything. It makes something that's supposed to be fun, like having a baby or getting married suddenly becomes stressful because of the financial component. So when I realized that this was a continual pattern, I decided to start going to therapy and that changed my life for more ways than just money and all of that and I'm sure that everybody listening right now, hopefully, as a believer, and if you're one of those people who is hesitant about going to see a therapist and you feel like this kind of is the same thing, it's not go see someone, there's no shame in it. I can't even imagine what my life would be without my therapist.
Speaker 2:But that was the first time that I realized that I could start to rewrite some of the stories I had about my life. Right, and some of those are obviously financial, some of those are emotional and confidence-wise. But the way that that manifested for me was pinpointing that I had financial anxiety and starting to get help with it, both from a therapist but also in learning financial skills. So because I didn't wanna relive my parent's story, I decided I was gonna learn everything I could about money. We started taking courses, we got mentors, blah, blah, blah, and that's where that whole financial transformation happened.
Speaker 2:And it was after that in my own life that my friends and family started to see a difference in me, and it wasn't about oh, now I'm dropping $100 bills, and it was nothing to do with that. It was about a lightness in my life because I wasn't so anxious about going out to eat with friends, what the medical bill was gonna cost, buying a new set of clothes. That translated in a more of a levity in my life, and my friends and family, before I knew what financial coaching was, started to ask for help. So I just started to get into people's budgets. For years. I did it for free for years.
Speaker 2:And I realized that it was like so much fun and people could really change their lives when they focused on okay, how can I gain a financial skill to help overcome my financial stress? Because a lot of us don't know that financial stress is something that's solvable. It's a problem that's solvable. It's not this sentence we have to live with forever, but it's something that we can gain skills with, gain awareness, have tools. There's a lot we can do about it, and I got kind of addicted to helping people do that. So in 2020, I launched my business and the rest. I mean, three years later, we've gotten to help so many people, but at the end of the day, it comes back to. I know what it's like to feel that anxiety and I know not everybody has to feel that way, and so I'm on a mission to help as many people as I can feel less stressed with their money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the part of the story which you didn't bring up.
Speaker 2:I'm surprised that which part? Oh, I'm sorry there's so many parts no you're good.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is the reason I'm here, right, this is why I am interviewing you. But when I read this part of your story, just like hit me was when you wrote, when you said you were on your napkin. Yes, I am going to get out of debt in five years. Like you put it out there, you even I think you had even written. I almost didn't believe this as I was writing it, but I was gonna make it happen. Talk more about that and what you know. Going back, that moment can you remember what?
Speaker 1:was going on for you.
Speaker 2:I do. Actually, one of the things my husband and I would do cause we're both future oriented people is we were on a date and I remember we were in Flagstaff, arizona, which is like a ski town, and we were talking about our future and what we wanted to see ourselves in five years, and I remember having a napkin and writing that we would be debt free in five years, and I remember both of us felt this like a fear to even write that down in terms of a fear of failure. I think that that is a really huge area. That women's struggle is putting a goal out there, owning that we have a goal. That goal may be we wanna lose weight, we wanna, like, get healthy, we wanna take a parenting course, we wanna run a marathon I don't know why I'm only thinking health stuff, but financial goes too.
Speaker 1:It's the time of year, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I know women who are working in certain careers and they're afraid to even say that they want the senior position.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right? Yes, because we have this fear of if I say it. Therefore, if I fail at it, it hurts more, right? And so I think that was the hardest part for us about putting that, I mean, on the napkin. That was the only piece of paper we had. It wasn't meant to be like something weird, it was just like, okay, these are the things we're gonna do. And feeling afraid when we wrote it and looking back because we saved that note, and looking back five years later.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so glad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and seeing, not only were we debt free, but I'm like, oh my gosh, we hit coast fire, which is where, if you never invest more money, you'll still be able to retire. And we bought our dream house and we did all this other stuff and I got to start a business. And it was the courage to write that first goal that I think is the hardest for people is to own what they want and to own the feeling of what if I fail.
Speaker 2:That, I think, is the catalyst for most people, because at least what I've found with my clients is that the hardest stage for someone to get to financially is not that they know that they need help. Right, most of us know that our financial life could be better.
Speaker 2:I don't need to share many details about that, but what we're not willing to do is to believe that it could be better, because if we believe that it could be better, then it puts this responsibility on us of like, oh crap, now I have to do something about that and I think that's the scariest place to be. But you can't. It's really hard to accidentally hit your financial goals right, like it's really hard to wake up one morning and be accidentally out of that, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, maybe it can happen for some people, but yeah, the likelihood of it actually happening is pretty low.
Speaker 2:Right, or even for a lot of moms, because I'll share a little about my story postpartum, when I had my first child. I had made a lot of progress before that with mental health and financial stuff, but when I had my first baby, everything my hormones, oh my gosh I had so much baggage coming up for me that it was probably the hardest time in my motherhood was experiencing really intense postpartum anxiety and depression. And for me, I'm a very industrious person and I have a very can-do attitude, which motherhood in its beauty is supposed to kind of break that a little bit in terms of I can do everything on my own without any help. And I think that that made my recovery from postpartum depression take a lot longer, because I was so hesitant to reach out and ask for help and to reach out and admit that I couldn't do something 100% on my own and for me to own that it was not cheap to get help Like going to therapy was expensive, you know, having a babysitter come over, which was something I didn't fathom for the first year of motherhood because I was so stressed still about my money was it seemed like something I couldn't do.
Speaker 2:So, as you can see, like the money and the mental health were really combined for me, because I wanted to just bootstrap it all. I thought that I needed to be a certain way as a mom, which meant I didn't. You know, if I'm gonna stay at home, mom, then that means I don't need. I don't need a cleaner, I can clean everything. I don't need help with that. Or, you know, I can cook everything from scratch. I'm not gonna be the mom who does.
Speaker 1:You know, pizza, the biggest lie, the biggest lie we've ever believed it's true.
Speaker 2:And what I didn't realize is that because of that, because I was so afraid to spend money, right I held myself back from getting, you know, medical help, therapy help, because I it was the financial concerns, right. I think that sometimes people feel that way and at the end of the day, when our mental health struggles, our finances struggle usually at the same time. And so in my life it was my mental health that led to my financial change. But for some people it can be the opposite, where you know, they start to make more money and then they realize, oh, like now, I can't keep making excuses as to why I shouldn't go see a therapist or why I shouldn't, you know, ask for some help sometimes.
Speaker 2:And for me that was a really big area where I think motherhood shook me up in a good way, not that I wish that upon anyone or that I even would go back and relive it, but it allowed me to confront like, no, the most important thing for my children is me being at 100%. And if I'm not able to be at 100%, then no matter how many crafts I do with them, how much time I spend with them, how many anything right, their best shot is a happy mom, and so I would say that is like a huge part of my financial journey was the really embracing, asking for help and realizing that I didn't have to do everything on my own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that really ties into that piece of values that you've talked about in terms of, yes, therapy can seem expensive, and sometimes it actually is, but if you already know what your values are, it's gonna be so much easier to make that investment in yourself than if you weren't living in alignment with your values or if you didn't even recognize what your values are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And I think for women to know that it's okay to need a little bit of help sometimes, because having a human baby is a hard job Like it is objectively hard, and I think we've been sold a lie that it's a one woman job, because it's not a one woman job. And even if we don't have a village you know, I didn't grow up or I didn't have my parents or my in-laws close to me Like we were kind of I had my sister close to me, but she also has four kids. So we're both helping each other out as we can. But I think that sometimes we look at our situation and we think like well, this is the village I have, or I don't have a village, when, therefore, I should be able to do it on my own. And it's like no, it wasn't ever made that way and we don't have to feel guilt around that.
Speaker 2:And I know that that journey can look different for everyone, but I think modern motherhood can be really overwhelming for a lot of women to do the whole thing on their own, whether they're working, whether they're at home. I've done both now. Neither one is a walk in the park, it's not and when you feel either your mental health or your financial health kind of pressing on you. I think it makes it harder, you know, and I think that's why it's so important for us to be talking about how to get help with mental health, how to get help with your money, because it's okay to ask for help.
Speaker 1:Absolutely it is, and, honestly, we all need to ask for help at some point because it's impossible to do everything on your own. It really is, and we're not meant to do everything on our own.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:One question I did have, so you were able to save up so much money, yeah, and y'all. I believe you had said y'all's income was only $58,000.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was our adjusted gross. No, it's around the average. It's now lower than the average. But around that time, in that period and in our city because I like to give people the stats Demographically we were in Phoenix, arizona, okay, so it's a little bit higher cost of living with.
Speaker 1:The year was between 2015 and 2019, I believe during this financial transformation and you already had kids at that time. Have you already had kids?
Speaker 2:So my first kid I had in 2017. Yeah, so that was my whole like big old financial anxiety Well, I mean not financial postpartum anxiety was the main driver in that situation. But yeah, so 2017 was our first child, 2020 the next and then my third was born just four months ago.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh my gosh, yeah, so little. And so the reason I asked that question is because, for me, one of the lies that I would tell myself was when I would see people who met these big financial goals or were able to get out of debt very quickly or fairly quickly in comparison to what we believe is, I would tell myself, well, they probably have a big income, or they probably have enough to, you know, maybe survive on just one income, or well, they don't have kids, so it's so much easier for them to do make that goal a reality. But here you are, your family at 58,000, right, gross.
Speaker 2:At that time, at that time yeah.
Speaker 1:And you had kids. So that just blow, that would blow all of those lies that I used to tell myself out of the water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing that, because I think that is what we all think Like. I think that that is kind of going back to the napkin goal Right. Sorry to go back to the napkin, but you brought it up so.
Speaker 1:No, yes, it was so pivotal. When I was reading your story I was like, oh my gosh, this is easy. And I even thought the reason why I responded I'm so glad you did was because when I read the napkin part I thought to myself I wonder if she kept it. I did. Then you answered. So that's why I was like, oh, I'm glad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, okay, but why? I think that is a great point that you bring up and I, like I said, appreciate your vulnerability, because I'm the same way. Like I'll look at a business owner and I'll be like, oh my gosh, like their business is like that and they've been in business as long as me and you know what I mean. And so what we try to do is our brain tries to come up with these stories. That helps us feel a little less bad, Like or like feel like we don't have to like it's not possible. I think that that's the main thing, is that I like to think to myself it's not possible, because if it's not possible I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1:Yes, right.
Speaker 2:And it's much harder to look at somebody or to look at a place you want to be and to say I love that for them, and I wonder if I could have that for me. Like, yeah, that's a really vulnerable place to be because it puts us in that place of like I could fail or I could be rejected. I could not. I could start to want that and I don't want to want that. So therefore, it's much safer if I could separate myself farther and farther away. Like I used to feel the same way, too, about people who got inheritances. Like there was this part of me that was like, oh well, life is easier, you know, and that's true it is. At the end of the day, the financial world is not an equal playing field. Like, as a financial coach, I have to have really really like a sensitivity to that, because we all don't start at the same place, right, and so, yes, the person who has an inheritance or the person with a larger income than you, yes, they may be able to do it faster, but at the end of the day, the race is only you versus you, because I, we can never level the playing field completely. All we can do is look at our situation and decide our starting point and to start to chart out where we'd like to go. And you know, the beauty of money is that it is something that's really flexible. It's something that is. I always consider myself to be really creative. I'm very financially creative, meaning when I look at somebody's money I see the situation of where they are now Right, but every line item in somebody's life could be changed if they wanted it to be changed, like the way they work, the way they spend, how they live, like all it's a big picture unfolding and all these pieces they're not all fixed. Does that make sense? Like they can change? Oh, yes, absolutely. And so the way that I view financial changes for people is it's about making the changes that feel right for you, that are moving. It's moving your life closer to your values. So at the time you know I would I'll be totally transparent One of the things that expedited our financial journey was the fact that I had a financial education from that priority.
Speaker 2:So, even though we didn't have a lot of money, I prioritized I'm going to start investing with a laughable amount of money. That was my like. We went, we interviewed financial advisors and they were, you know, we were like these early 20s kids and it's like who can? It's like, why, why do you even care about this? Like this is not what people care about. But I had my vision, I had what I wanted, I knew what, you know, this would provide my family. And so I was like, yeah, I'm going to start right now. Even as a single income family who makes $56,000 a year, we're going to find this, you know, a small amount and start there. And while that didn't do everything for us, right, it was the gateway that opened it up Because, since I had set my target, I was like, oh, investing is important to us.
Speaker 2:We want to have security and our old age and our young age for our kids, their education. What it began to do, is it? You know, the napkin goal makes you start to look for solutions, like when your brain is wired to be looking for how can I make something happen? Suddenly, it was like, oh, this little side hustle I did for 500. Oh, great. You know, I at the time I was nannying a friend's baby once a week and you might think, oh, $500, what's that going to do? Right? But I had my goal already, and so it's like I know where I'm going and I'm going to make this happen, and it's.
Speaker 2:I think that that's what happens when we write down and own.
Speaker 2:What we want is that there are solutions all around us, but we never see solutions unless we're willing to say this is something I want to do, this is something I believe I can do, because if you don't believe you can do it, if you don't believe it's even possible to write down, it is most likely never going to happen, and so the most dangerous thing you can do, kayla, would be to say, okay, huh, how can I do blank, even though I don't have blank or all the things that these other people have got going on or that I'm afraid because I don't have, how can I still get blank, like, and suddenly your brain's going to come up with solutions, and I think that's what that's.
Speaker 2:What I get to do with people is I get to help them find the solutions that are all around them, you know. So that's how I deal with kind of that like fear and comparison, because it's like, yeah, it's true, you know what? That people are farther ahead than us, have better situations, have better resources, everything Right, and we can never. It's hard to compare because it's not an equal playing field, right. But I will say something else.
Speaker 2:Sorry, just about this is, you can have all the good things in the world given to you and, at the end of the day, people I mean, I think, the studies they've done of millionaires, most millionaire families within the second generation the wealth is all gone because it's not about how much money you have, it's about how you use it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And also the relationship that you have with your money, because if you look at getting an inheritance or winning the lottery or having a significant raise, is not going to change your life if you don't have a good relationship with your money.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You're going to get back into the same position, because I'm sure I think I don't know. If this is true, I want to say that they have done studies on people who have won the lottery. Yes, and a lot of them, a huge percentage of them, end up just spending it all within five years. Yeah, and it's a really high, it's actually a really high.
Speaker 2:I can double check it, but it's also a really high suicide rate too, for people who win the lottery. Yes, kayla, I love that you bring that up, because it's not just our strategy with money, right, that allows us to have a good relationship. It's our mindset and relationship with our money, the way we earn it and the way that we spend it, that dictates our life, and you can kind of switch into a more positive relationship with your money, even as you're paying off debt, even as your income is lower, even as your savings account isn't where you'd like it to be yet. One of my favorite books of all time is a book called Happy Money by Ken Honda and anybody who's interested in a little bit of mindset. It's not woo, woo or anything, but it's about the Japanese art of making peace with your money, and he talks a lot about this concept of there's happy money and unhappy money and at the end of the day, you can have all the wealth in the world.
Speaker 2:But if you are stuck in an unhappy money cycle meaning you earn money in fear, frustration, greed, despair, right, or almost, I think fear is the best word and then you spend it in that same way, right. So thinking about unhappy money is the money we owed for bad work and we, like it feels stolen from us. That's like unhappy money, right? Happy money is money that you spend, I would consider. For me, happy money is the money I spend on my therapist, where, right, it could be the same amount of money in both scenarios, but the way it leaves me is with like appreciation, gratitude, joy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And same with our debt. Right, Our debt can be a source of unhappiness in our life. Or one of the things that I find really helps clients is to not hate our debt so much Because we have this like shame filled relationship with like our student loans and our credit card debt or our medical bills. It's filling our life with this like negative, it's unhappy money. That's what it is right. We pay it off unhappily, we earn money unhappily, we go to these jobs we hate. But when you can learn to make peace even with your financial mistakes or your financial learning opportunities. Because what I often ask clients is like okay, think about your student debt, the student debt that you've been obsessing about. You hate it for years and years. I want you to think about it for a second and I want to think about what has that debt brought to your life?
Speaker 2:right Chances are I brought something. It had to have brought something. I have an education. Actually, I get to work in my field. I love my field and I love my job. I hate how much debt I have, but I love my job. Right, so that debt served. It brought something to you.
Speaker 2:Right, even if it's debt that you feel like, well, actually that was dumb money I spent, I bought handbags and something of that nature. Right, when it's like, well, why did you buy those handbags? And usually it's like, well, I went through a bad breakup and I was feeling like I wasn't confident in myself. And this is not a blank check to just spend money, but rather when you're going and focusing on the financial goals you want to have. It doesn't have to be filled with shame, despair and self-loathing. Right Like we can look at things of our past and have some compassion with ourselves. And I think what I found for most clients is when they have compassion, even with their financial mistakes. You'll notice that it's a lot easier to get out of debt when you don't hate yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and I'm glad you brought that up, because I would almost say you have to have compassion with yourself. Yes, not that maybe you can't get out of debt without having compassion with yourself, but it's going to be such an easier journey and when you get to the end you're going to be so much more fulfilled because you know, talking about that happy money, it wasn't a dreadful process.
Speaker 2:Yes, because at the end of the day sorry, I normally don't go here, but we're going here At the end of the day, the flow that you're in in your life with your money, that is the flow of your life. It's because, at the end of the day, what do we do? We work to make money. So if we're working in fear, anxiety, that's a huge part of our life. And then the other half we're spending it. And so if we're spending it in anger, frustration, shame, fear, notice our relationship with money is just a reflection of what's going on in our life, which is my favorite part of coaching, because at the end of the day, every financial problem typically has nothing to do with money.
Speaker 2:We use the tools we figure out how to make, give you those financial skills. But my favorite part is that people come with one goal, and for me that was paying off debt. That was my one goal. That started this cycle for me. But people come with one goal and they think, oh, this is so big, I could never achieve this. And then they achieve it, and then this light bulb turns on in their mind because they're like what else is possible?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What else could my life be Right? That is why financial coaching, to me, is the best job in the world, because people gain financial confidence, which gives them more confidence in their life, and then their goals get larger, more centered on their values, and they're able to really live the type of life they want to live, versus a life controlled by. Well, I don't have enough money for that.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, and I'm so glad you went there. This is such a safe space to go there.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't know if it is when you said this is not all the woo-woo stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm like, no, bring all the woo-woo stuff. I love it. Yeah, there is a, so we're almost out of time. I hate it, but when you had said you can look at spending your money in, just oh, I have to pay this or I have to pay that For, filled with anxiety when you look at the bill or look at whatever your groceries cost, I had heard once to frame it as, when you see that, just being appreciative that you're getting to help whoever it is that's serving you, I'm so appreciative that I get to have these groceries and that the money is going to come back around. Or I'm so glad that I was able to come and spend this time with whoever you're spending your time with and that I'm getting to help the waitress who is serving us today.
Speaker 1:And just those little, tiny refrains can make all the difference.
Speaker 2:And even just starting that journey with trying to be more compassionate with yourself in the way you spend your money- yeah, and I love that because I think it's a really good aspiration for people Like that tiny moment that they can just switch the story that they're telling themselves about it Like and I want to still validate the people that feel like I could tell myself that story. I could tell myself the story like oh well, I'm so happy I get to serve these people, but at the end of the day, the checkbook still isn't adding up or my debt is rising, and it's right. I want to validate that experience too, because it's both aimed right.
Speaker 2:I think that often that anxiety is magnified when we feel like I can't make progress on my goals, I can't save more. I don't know how to start doing this. My spouse and I are fighting all the time about money, so I could be writing down all the positive thoughts in the world, but at the end of the day, the numbers aren't adding up right. That's the financial strategy part and it's equal to the financial mindset part and they both work together. So it's the same for someone who has the financial strategy down, somebody who's like well, I got all this extra money, but I still hate my job and I hate my life.
Speaker 1:Yes, right.
Speaker 2:I've got that person over here and then the other side is the person is like well, I'm saying all the positive money mantras in the fricking world and again, like I said, the numbers are negative. Both have validity because it's the two together that really build this like confident. Not just confident is how you feel emotionally about your money, but I also love, you know, to feel successful with your money in terms of like, hey, quantifiably I'm moving forward. I think that's what financial success is for so many people is to see, year after year, I'm moving forward, I feel confident about where I'm going, I know how long it's gonna take me to get there, like, but so many of us, when we don't have that, we just feel stuck where we are, we don't see a way out, and that's like where it's really hard to do one or the other or both, because it's like, well, I don't even see a path out of us.
Speaker 2:So I wanna validate that experience because I know, with inflation, with the cost of living, the cost of housing, that is what most people are feeling with their money right now, and it's not an overnight, it's not a snap of a finger. So you know, if I could tell everyone on this podcast like, hey, it could be better. Right, they're like that's great, but like help me where I am, and that is, you know, a really valid place to be as well, because it's not a one size fits for all. Right, like there isn't a magic money tip that we can get to feel better with our money, but I think the hope of that it's possible, that there is a napkin goal you could write, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that you know there's a way to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's, I feel like what I want people to make sure that they can walk away with, is that the napkin goal be willing to write it, be willing to own it. You know, but the solution may not happen overnight, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would even dare to say that the magic money tip really is is blending those two topics that we talked about. It's, you know, the financial stuff, what did you call it? The financial Strategy with financial Strategy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like relationship or mindset. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, blending those two together and working that we're working on them together is the magic financial money tip.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes it is. And to get curious, get curious about it. I think if you can be curious about why you're not where you want to be or curious about your goal, that's magic too right. Instead of having the story as to why it's not possible, just switch it to a question, right. Why can't? I wonder how I could pay off my debt all the time yeah.
Speaker 2:What would it look like? What would that look like? What would that feel like? Oh right, like getting comfortable in that space of curiosity. And I think, as women I'm gonna bring it back to being a mom for a second I used to have a lot of stories about help and like stories about what type of person I was.
Speaker 2:You know, there's a whole thing there's all these different money stories that we have and part of my anxiety was I was just really overwhelmed. I also think I have undiagnosed ADHD I'll just say this on a podcast, but it's the truth and I felt like, well, it's wasteful to do X, and you might know exactly what that is in your mind. I'll say for me what it was in mine. It was getting a house cleaner to come. That was like wasteful. So in my mind at the time. And so for me to say for me to even own that, oh man, that would make my life easier, right. It was like, oh no, that's greedy, that's right. No, no, no, that's for different type of women. No, no, no, I'm this way. Be curious with yourself about that, because I think that if we're gentle with ourselves, we can be curious, but when we're not gentle with ourselves. It's hard to be curious and that took a lot of time for me to, because that was its own financial goal, right. But it's like oh no, I can't, I can't, oh no, no, I can't do that.
Speaker 2:And I think as moms, we all have those things that we know. Like man, I'd be a happier mom if I could blank, and I don't know what that is. Maybe it's if I could take a day alone, if I could hire a sitter once a month and get a complete day alone where nobody touched me, nobody touched me. I didn't have to clean anything, I didn't have to make any chicken nuggets, right, like, or it's. I have been an amazing mom. If I was able to take that class, that painting class that I really want to take, I would feel so filled up. But I can't justify the cost of the class. I can't justify hiring a sitter, like we have these stories about. We're a bad mom if and yes they're related to money. So it's like allowing yourself not only to be compassionate but to make those a part of the goal too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I really do believe that our children win. They really win.
Speaker 1:They do.
Speaker 2:When we are filling our own cup, Like they lose. They just lose when we think we're giving it all to them and it's like one of those magic money things of like somehow, when you put more energy towards you, somehow there's more energy for your kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I really do believe that, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they're watching you doing those things because they're watching you doing those things all the time. So if you're not taking care of yourself now as a parent, as a mom, they're going to do that too. So, honestly, it's hurting them for you not to take care of yourself and for them not to see you take care of yourself, because they're just going to go and repeat that pattern.
Speaker 2:And for them not to see you have fun, because the fun that you deny yourself as a parent is the fun you're denying your children as they get older, because they live often as they either live in spite of us or they live inspired by us. And I think like I love that. I think that women are like, oh well, I shouldn't do that, but it's like when we prioritize having fun, our daughters give themselves the ability to have fun when they're a mom, we do. We do, yeah, you know like, so yes.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, Nicole. If someone here's listening and is thinking I want to work with her, I need to work with her, I want to figure this stuff out, and I feel like she is going to help me get there. How do they reach out to you? Where can they find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you are listening to this and you say to yourself money is the thing that holds me back in my life, I feel money stress all the time, and you don't have to be somebody who doesn't make enough money or you feel that you make too much money to feel that way. It does not matter. If you feel that your money brings more stress into your life, feel free to look into financial coaching. Our website is wwwarisefinancial. You can find us on Instagram at arisefinancialcoaching, and we have a team of financial coaches who are all in our same mindset of shame-free financial coaching to help you improve not just your results with money, but also your relationship with it. So schedule a free call with us and we can talk together about your specific situation and if financial coaching is the thing that you've been looking for. So I'd love to connect with you all. And thanks for having me on, kayla.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course this was so great and of course I will link all that stuff up in the show notes. If you're driving, don't try and write it down. But yes, I really enjoyed this episode for sure, and I can't wait to keep connecting with you.
Speaker 2:Yes, all right, bye everyone.